Let me count my marbles and get back to you on that, Scarecrow.

I used to have a cartoon (lost in one of my crashes) where a chicken and egg are in bed together. The chicken is having a cigarette and the caption was "Well I guess that answers that one".

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Calm, quiet, smooth, devastating

LOL - I love that cartoon Oldfart.

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I see your fantasy... you want to make it a reality

Are you in the mood to be subdued

You see these shackles
Baby I’m your slave
I’ll let you whip me if I misbehave

Tie me to the bedpost

I like it rough
cause I'd rather feel pain than nothing at all

Gentlefolk,

Pennsylvania Federal Judge John Jones has ruled that the Dover school board violated the constitutional ban on teaching religion in public schools.

/me quickly replaces his Intelligent Design watch with one that's more "constitutional".

Attached Images

Darwinian watch.jpg (87.2 KB, 324 views)

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Though I am different from you,
We were born involved in one another.

For it was not into my ear you whispered, but into my heart. It was not my lips you kissed, but my soul.

Complete surrender should not just come at moments in which one faces overwhelming odds, but in the calm when it seems one is personally in complete control of one's life.

That's terrific.

LOL @ WildIrish!

as a *soon-to-be* high school Biology teacher, i should be very opinionated on what is required for me to teach, but i REALLY don't have much of an opinion either way.

I do like what my high school biology teacher did, somewhat similar to what Lilith's teacher did, is to explain how religion and evolution can tie into each other, and did this as an extra-curricular activity. at the time, i opted out of listening to it, but now as a future educator I wish i had heard what she had to say.

perhaps it is better that i be middle of the road??? more for impartial teaching????

I wish I had been involved in this from the outset, if only to avoid reading ten pages in one sitting...

This is one of my favourite subjects, but much of what I had to say has already been said (many times), so I will limit myself to the following:



This is a fundamental problem - the difference exists whether people believe in it or not. Everyone believes what they want to believe, often despite evidence to the contrary (not just in religion), and it is surprising how far individuals will bend things to fit those beliefs. I would include the length of creation "days" in that statement



Nothing is wrong with teaching kids different opinions - in fact, this is the ideal situation. The problem is that "different opinions" in such statements tend to mean the one that the speaker agrees with. Interesting that you end with "the truth according to mama" .

I note that the Intelligent Design idea fits conveniently with Christianity, and no supporter has advocated teaching about Hindu, Shinto and Dreamtime creation stories. I am all for teaching the alternatives (in an appropriate religious, not science, lesson), but that has to cover more than the one favoured option, otherwise it is just dogma.

If you haven't already guessed, I come from one of the most secular countries in the world. This story has had a lot of press over here. Talking of which, no-one has mentioned the judges comments:

"In his ruling, Judge Jones demolished assertions by members of Dover's former school board, or administrators, that the theory of intelligent design (ID) was based around scientific rather than religious belief.

He accused them of "breathtaking inanity", of lying under oath and of trying to introduce religion into schools through the back door.

The judge said he had determined that ID was not science and "cannot uncouple itself from its creationist, and thus religious, antecedents". "

I had best stop now, before I upset anyone else
Sara

For me faith involves believing without the benefit of empirical data so truth be told, I will never see the religious beliefs surrounding creationism as anything other than religion and the science for me will always be evolving (no pun intended) science. I don't think religion should be taught as science but I certainly think it hurts no one to offer it as an elective. A course such as Religious Beliefs and Creationism that explored a variety of creation stories and the people who believe them, such as Osuche suggested may be a viable answer. I would list it as a Lit course or Social Studies.

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If I wanted your opinion, I'd remove the duct tape and ask you for it.~ Me
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Lilith,

Sounds like a reasonable approach.

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Eudaimonia

Agreed - assuming it covers the world's major religions. A grasp of Islam would be of immense benefit to the western world in the current political climate (and, equally, understanding in the opposite direction).

Why do we have to give religion a new name in an attempt to pacify the agnostics in the crowd?

The days of teaching the "other side" to creation are long gone and we need to come to that realization. This was a sad day for those that believe in a higher being, regardless of the name of that higher power is called.

For those that do believe, there are other places to get the education. I've never had a doubt about my beliefs and don't need the courts to legislate my morality or understanding of where I came from. I know where I'm headed and feel sorry for those that haven't a clue.

sharper,

Yes'm, it would.

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Eudaimonia

Got this in an email, thought I would put it here.

> > > >>>>>>>>>SOMEBODY'S RAISING THEIR CHILD RIGHT!
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>One day, a 6 year old girl was sitting in a classroom.
The
> > > >>>>>>>>>Teacher was
> > > >>>>>>>>>explaining evolution to the children. The Teacher asked
a
> >little
> > > >>>>>>>>>boy:
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>TEACHER: Tommy do you see the tree
> > > >>>>outside?
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>TOMMY: Yes.
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>TEACHER: Tommy, do you see the grass outside?
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>TOMMY: Yes.
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>TEACHER: Go outside and look up and see if you can
see
>the
> > > >>>>>>>>>sky.
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>TOMMY: Okay. (He returned a few minutes later) Yes,
I
>saw
> > > >>>>>>>>>the sky.
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>TEACHER: Did you see
> > > >>>>GOD?
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>TOMMY: No.
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>TEACHER: That's my point. We can't see GOD because HE
>isn't
> > > >>>>>>>>>there. HE
> > > >>>>>>>>>just doesn't exist.
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>A little girl spoke up wanting to ask the boy some
questions.
> > > >>>>>>>>>The Teacher
> > > >>>>>>>>>agreed.
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>LITTLE GIRL: Tommy, do you see the tree outside?
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>TOMMY: Yes.
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>LITTLE GIRL: Tommy do you see the grass
> > > >>>>outside?
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>TOMMY: Yessssss!
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>LITTLE GIRL: Did you see the sky?
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>TOMMY: Yessssss!
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>LITTLE GIRL; Tommy, do you see the Teacher?
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>TOMMY: Yes
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>LITTLE GIRL: Do you see her brain?
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>TOMMY: No
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>LITTLE GIRL: Then according to what we were taught
today,
>she
> > > >>>>>>>>>doesn't
> > > >>>>have
> > > >>>>>>>>>one...........

Hopefully it won't ruffle any feathers.

But a happy day for thinkers, I would suggest



Exactly, and that is what the ruling was all about.



So do I