You made the suggestion. Now substantiate it.

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Eudaimonia

Please don't tell me you don't see the built in disclaimer in my statement. In any case, I don't enjoy the debate process as much as you do. As my daddy told me, "Figures don't lie, but liars figure."

My daddy was a pretty smart man...

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Plug me into somethin'

If the theory does not conform to the facts, then the facts must be discarded.

No good deed ever goes unpunished

Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, & beat you with experience.

Ah, I see. You expect people to believe what you suggest because you suggested it. I guess that becomes a question of faith.

Good luck.

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Eudaimonia

I won't jump to far into the fray here....I have what I am learning is a strange opinion on fuel shortages and prices.

We all cry and blame "THE BIG BAD OIL COMPANIES" (you can insert refineries, suppliers, distributors, whatever you want in there) for our current gas prices, shortages or even lack of gas what so ever.

I think that the one thing we all forget is that they are businesses. They exist to MAKE A PROFIT. Having fuel is not a 'god-given necessity'. Most of us take it for granted that we will have gas at the corner store whenever we need it and expect to pay only a certain amount for it. (BTW we have traditionally paid less in this country than just about anywhere else) We don't think about the fact that the gas company is there to MAKE MONEY.

The 'American Dream' was to come to this country...start from nothing and build your empire. The problem is that those that do exactly that are then criticized and even blamed for the hardship it may cause to others.

Yes I think poor planning and management affect gas shortages (they don't make money if they don't provide the product) but I think the fact that they can charge 5$ a gallon and that we PAY $5 a gallon just illustrates that we are willing to pay for it. They will continue to raise the prices and push the market to make the largest profit they can. Is this moral? Is this right? Who knows... that is for every person to decide for themselves. If you don't like paying 5$ a gallon...don't buy it. Invent an alternative...ride your bike...walk...whatever it takes to avoid spending your money and giving them a profit.

We have gotten so dependent on our cars and gasoline that we EXPECT and DEMAND certain things...they are there to make money....we have the choice to give it to them or not.

(And yes I realize that is a VERY simple view point on the whole issue and that the entire situation is very complex...but over all the basics still stand. They are a business and are out to make money....if you don't want to pay that price for something buy an alternative. We do the same thing with other products we buy).

OK.... Im ready....throw it all at me

(I will add that I just traded in my SUV ::SOBS LOUDLY:: for a Dodge Neon to pay only $40 every two weeks compared to my $65 every week in an effort to lower my gas spending and put maybe a penny less or so in the pockets of the gas companies - not a huge change but every little bit helps).

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I am a good girl...no wait..a bad girl...no wait...which do I want to be again??

Airy,

Bold views! Bravely said! I wish you well, but envy you not.

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Eudaimonia

I have braced myself...I know it's coming. It happens every time I open my mouth on this topic.


BRING IT ON!

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I am a good girl...no wait..a bad girl...no wait...which do I want to be again??

I don't have any problem with gas companies. I have a problem with all the government $$, tax breaks etc. that have been afforded them.

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The practice of putting women on pedestals began to die out when it was discovered that they could give orders better from there.~ Betty Grable

If I wanted your opinion, I'd remove the duct tape and ask you for it.~ Me
<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
One man's dream is another man's nightmare~~~~> §¤ Lilith ¤§
~>My Scribbles<~
==>Gone Shopping<== ~Just a Quickie~ *~A Celebration Vacation~* ~Surprises~ Sleeping With the Window Open
What Did You Do Today? Self Defense Class ~Short Sweet Snippets~ § Summer Spin § Story Challenge Submission Pajamas

This may suprise you but having run two of my own businesses,I totally agree!
By the way,my wife & two daughters don't!I have worked until 2/3 in the morning,to make a profit & to keep my customers happy.Good business sense is like good sex.A satisfied customer is a repeat customer Irish (my $.02)

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Irish---Better to be dead & cool,then alive & uncool!
(Harley Davidson & the Marlboro Man)

It surprised me until I read "having run two of my own businesses".

I also ran two businesses and worked my ASS off day after day after day (one would think it would be smaller by now)! As a small business owner (and a restaurant owner to boot - read the success rate of restaurants - the SBA won't even do restaurant loans for 90% of start ups! - thank you government assistance!!) it was all on me and my ability to successfully run my business to ensure a profit. Thankfully I was able to, and made a pretty damn good profit (if I do say so myself) but there was NO help from the government and I will honestly say as a Franchise owner, who was more successful than some of my peers, there was a feeling that I shouldn't be successful since they weren't...that I was to blame for making it work while they where unable to.

The "American Dream" is great for those that make it and build it and those that understand the hard work that goes into it...its a 24/7 all the time, no breaks, no sleep, you do it all from clean the toilet to shake hands with big wigs (remember to remove the rubber gloves first!). It always baffled me the other owners who where never in their stores or had no clue (down to the last ketchup packet) what their inventory was that they where surprised they didn't make a profit. I applaud anyone who goes out there and builds something and makes it work (no this does not include people like poor Paris Hilton who did nothing to earn it!) but blaming them for being successful does not solve the problem. We make them successful by buying their products and paying their prices.

Lilith - I agree about the government...and I will be the first to say they need to get out of my business (and everyone else's). But then...no one listens to me, and I think it will get worse before it gets better (if it ever gets better).

So much for not jumping into the fray! Thanks for commenting I was feeling like I just went to far and no one was going to touch it.

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I am a good girl...no wait..a bad girl...no wait...which do I want to be again??

Rubber Gloves?Unneccessary expense!Besides it's more fun to shake hands with the bigwigs,when only you know!I ran two motorcycle repair &customising shops.Before there were motorcycle enthusiasts,there were
only Bikers.You don't tend to get alot of "Bigwigs" in that crowd! Irish
P.S.How are you going to get the grease off of your hands,if you wear rubber gloves?(Just kidding,my attempt at humor)

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Irish---Better to be dead & cool,then alive & uncool!
(Harley Davidson & the Marlboro Man)

HA HA HA that was great! Well being in the food industry my guess is that using the gloves was a necessity not an extra expense (and trust me it amazes me I even eat in restaurants anymore knowing what I know about the back of a house!

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I am a good girl...no wait..a bad girl...no wait...which do I want to be again??

i'd love to trade in my minivan for a more gas friendly car, unfortunately the government requires me to put all my kids in car seats and we couldn't fit into a compact car. not legally. hmmmm. but they do give me a tax break for my kids, so perhaps it evens out. oh wait, the break doesn't adjust for rising food and gas prices. or school taxes. or immunizations. or the cost of the car seats. i suppose it would be a lot cheaper for me (and them) if i could school my kids at home, but soon there will be certifications required to do that and they cost money, too. else, there'd be truancy issues and fines. oh, and the high costs of insurance on homes heated by woodstove. and the zoning laws that make commercial and industrial areas build so far away from residential that no-one can walk or bike to work. man, i wish the government could come up with some way to supplement the costs of my forced compliance to this energy guzzling economy in a more reasonable way, so i could put some money toward my future prospects and alternatives and enact a more cost effective distribution of my current resources with better returns.

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Trees give peace to the souls of men * Nora Waln

The forest would be very quiet if no other birds sang than those who sing the best * Henry van Dyke

some fairly sordid tales, rambles, and anecdotes
Hypothetically Speaking * Something More * Cammy Interrupted * An Experimental Vacation * Masked * so..damn..hot * Thank You * My toy, his idea * no.19 Maple Lane * I Have A Surprise For You * Yesterday * In a Quiet Kitchen * help me decide * untitled prose * more untitled prose

In *this particular case*, actually, I blame the oil speculators who keep trading their "shares" of the supply, artifically driving up the price when the market supply runs short.



NEIITHER IS MAKING A PROFIT.



And the problem is that American Dream is a lie...nobody, but NOBODY, despite the lie, EVER made something from nothing. It was in fact, ALWAYS built from the hardship of others. Hence, while the second part of this quote is often true, the referenced criticism is entirely justified.

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On the kinkometer, my kink measures as a sine wave.

I dont know how to quote specific things individually (someone has to teach me please!)

As for the comments here are my responses...

The oil speculators are speculating on what we will pay and they are in the "business" of doing that and thats what makes them a profit. So kind of the same thing...I am not saying they are moral or just or right...just that they are doing it and making a profit as is the purpose of what they are doing.

No one claimed making a profit is a god given right but it is something we all strive for and even require to live. As crappy as it is....money makes the world go round.

As for the American Dream being a lie....you are very wrong. I have first hand experience in this reality. My grandfather fled Russia and walked into China...then took his family and fled China when the Japanese came in. He took his wife and 2 daughters to Australia. He left them there and moved to the US. Speaking NO English, having less than 5$ to his name. He worked 4 jobs (for Pan Am, painting houses, tending bar and in a jam factory). He lived in a water tower and after 5 years sent for his wife and 2 daughters. My grandmother was one of the first women doctors in China...she worked changing bed pans in the hospitals here because they wouldn't recognize her skills, she also cleaned houses, and did mending on the side. They all lived in that water tower. They saved and worked and bought a small deli...then later bought a house...and 50 years later (with NO government help and nothing but hard work) owned 2 successful businesses, over 20 houses/rental properties, put all of their grandchildren thru college with no student loans, and did all this themselves. They worked till the day they died. They built a legacy (sure we aren't the Hiltons) that has provided for and left enough for our children. The American Dream is possible....it's just not easy.

They did not build this at the expense of ANYONE. They did not play on the hardship of anyone. They worked hard, they sacrificed, and they had hard times. They also then spent years helping get other families out of China and other areas and help them.

Please don't get me wrong...I think that there are MANY that benefit at the expense of others...that is not the American Dream. But the American Dream is possible...its rare...but possible. My grandparents moved here because this is one of the few places such things are possible.

I won't disagree that many use the concept of the "American Dream" as a way of justifying the type of behavior you are talking about....that doesn't make it the American Dream nor does it make it right.


Wyndhy -

I agree and thankfully the only way I was able to trade in my SUV was that my oldest two are finally out of car seats and my youngest is in a booster. And not sure what I will do when they get a bit bigger!! They are growing so fast!! (Don't get me started on food costs or anything else!)

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I am a good girl...no wait..a bad girl...no wait...which do I want to be again??

I'm not complaining about anyone making a profit. My dad is trying to get his own franchise off the ground right now. What I'm complaining about is the lack of forethought regarding the hurricane, and several other things. Kind of sucks. As for government assistance......it seems that if you're white, a born citizen, and make about 35k a year (that includes combined incomes for you married couples) you won't get it. Or at least that's what it seems like.

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"BOY: On a hot summer night, would you offer your throat to the wolf with the red roses? GIRL: Will he offer me his mouth? BOY: Yes. GIRL: Will he offer me his teeth? BOY: Yes. GIRL: Will he offer me his jaws? BOY: Yes. GIRL: Will he offer me his hunger? BOY: Yes. GIRL: Again, will he offer me his hunger? BOY: Yes! GIRL: Yes. BOY: On a hot summer night, would you offer your throat to the wolf with the red roses? GIRL: Yes. BOY: I bet you say that to all the boys!" -Meatloaf