Recently at another forum we got into a discussion about open marriages and how possible it might reaffirm a marriage. Reaffirm because our basic humn instinct for both sexes for copulation and curiosity could be fullfilled leaving less questions of what if. Supposedly allowing a fuller meaningful mental/emotional portion of the marriage.

The only real argument given was that many people could not handle the jealousy, which was argued back that shows a possiveness on the jealous persons part. As if the SO is a object they own. Which goes back to a patriarchy ideal that at least many of us in that board were trying not to fall for.

Soo.. Im wondering if any of the couples here have a open marriage, and how has it worked out? Helped? Hindered? Ever worries about STDs from one another? Have you actually been afraid your SO (or yourself) falling mentally for the outside partner(s)?

At the other end, do you think some couples are only meant for one another. Since we humans have choice and dont have a real instinct driving us here. We can choose to be like wolves that mate for life.

(I hope this was the right area since it is dealing with sex in this section)

__________________
.sixsense.

Monogamy is not a repressive institution based upon patriarchal oppression (ask any barrister). If we had patriarchal oppression, we would have harems.

Open marriage is an oxymoron - like military intelligence or TV personality.

If you need to fuck whoever takes your fancy or to discover who you are - you are too immature to get married or marraige is not for you, which is fair enough but not for your partner maybe, otherwise you are being selfish which is more likely the reality.

I just object to wrapping this up in some excuse because you have exhausted the sexual possibilities of one partner even though they remain your best bet in the wider unit field.

Just be honest about it. I need to explore more, but keep an eye to the consequences. Put a little more effort in, you may be surprised.

GGGRRRRR

Scary Vigil.

__________________
Vigil, if you were my husband, I would give you poison.

Madam, if you were my wife, I would take it.

My wanting to have an open relationship has nothing to do with needing to discover myself, nor have I exhausted the sexual possibilities with Mr. Lil (well maybe for today but tomorrow is another day). Just because something is not your cup of tea, I would still ask you be respectful to those of us who see the coin from a different side.

I know who I am and yearn to share aspects of myself with others who I have come to care for deeply in my life. I find my need for an open marriage to be different from many. I do not seek an open marriage for a more free love lifestyle but because I have already established relationships that have in no way detracted from my marriage and I yearn to express myself sexually in those relationships. Mr. Lil, being the extraordinary man that he is, is secure enough to realize that there is no other relationship to rival what he and I have. We are in the process of sincerely weighing out what influence multiple partners would have on our lives. He has expressed that he feels glad that I am not seeking a lifestyle where I/he would sleep with people randomly but that instead it would simply be an option if either of us were ever in a situation where it was what we felt was right.

For me marriage does not mean we have agreed to forego any other close intimate relationships, only that we have chosen to make ours the primary one in both of our lives.

__________________

The practice of putting women on pedestals began to die out when it was discovered that they could give orders better from there.~ Betty Grable

If I wanted your opinion, I'd remove the duct tape and ask you for it.~ Me
<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
One man's dream is another man's nightmare~~~~> §¤ Lilith ¤§
~>My Scribbles<~
==>Gone Shopping<== ~Just a Quickie~ *~A Celebration Vacation~* ~Surprises~ Sleeping With the Window Open
What Did You Do Today? Self Defense Class ~Short Sweet Snippets~ § Summer Spin § Story Challenge Submission Pajamas

**Wanda Kitty unsheaths her very sharp claws**
Vigil, you are so wrong in so many ways!
Starting with the "Patriarchal oppression" you deny exists in the West.
By the way, go back and re-read what sixsense wrote. The words "patriarchal oppression" DO NOT APPEAR!!!! ***ANYWHERE***in the post!
Sixsense did mention "patriarchal ideal" which is not the same thing, sweetie pie.
I am bothered by your translation of "ideal" into "oppression". A nastier woman than myself might suggest that your slip is showing. (Freud was a silly man anyway. I mean, all women have "penis envy"??... HAH! But never mind)
I wonder if you asked your SO (wife or girlfriend) if she thinks this is a patriarchal society?
You should. I do not know your SO, but she likely might tell you that the West, as big an improvement as it is over the rest of the world, is not an equal opportunity place for women, even in the 21st century.
The "patriarchal ideal" sixsense mentioned traditionally refers to the confidence a man has in believing HE is the sire of any offspring, and the other "rights" a man has over a woman in the marriage. The "fatherhood" issue is a big one. In the animal kingdom dominant males will kill and eat the male offspring of other males.
This is important to human males too. Look at the laws on heirs and property, for example, and the "right" a man seems to have in many places in the USA to KILL his wife if he finds her with another man!
Men are still being given the "benefit of the doubt" on this in too many places. Women are not granted this doubt in similar circumstances...
I think that murder over sexual fidelity is stupid, cruel and pointless, but I feel like a voice in the wilderness. And we will not speak of the practices OUTSIDE the West, which are totally barbaric, including female circumcision, and "honor" murders!!
The patriarchal issues extend into joint ownership of property, management of money, and even joint credit ratings. ("Have your husband come down to co-sign if you want to borrow money, Mrs. Smith)"
Women keeping their own surnames is stil a bit of a scandal in some circles, and I prefer Ms. to Mrs., as I am not ANYBODY'S property, even when I was married. (yes I was, and I am coming to that too, later on)
Yes, things have improved a lot recently, but there are still problems. Louisiana, my home state, bases its' laws on the Napoleanic Code for God's sake!
NEXT:
Laws AGAINST the right to birth control for women.
I am not talking about abortion. Just birth control. You know, condoms, diaphrams, the Pill. Margaret Sanger, (my personal idol, after my Parents) went to prison for teaching women how NOT to get pregnant in 1917 at a time when the death rate for women in childbirth was horrendous.
Canda didn't legalize contraception 1969. The USA made legal the sale of birth control devices to single people IN FUCKING 1972!!!!!!
Next:
I am a young woman. When my Grandmama was born, (1940) in France, she could not vote, run for office, or join a political party. France did not "grant" the right to vote to women until 1944. The USA did it earlier, in 1920.
The USA still has not found its' way to elect a woman President, or even a Vice President.
The first woman elected to a Govenorship on her own merit, and not as a substitute for her spouse was Ella Grasso, in 1974.
Women Senators are fairly new too, by the way. Since 1920, when we got the vote, 33 have served, and 23 of those have been elected since 1972.

So much for the "patriarchal ideal" as a "myth." Maybe "oppression" is closer to reality!

Out of room. Next post I get really catty.

MS. Wicked Wanda

__________________
"I wondered, am I a lesbian, am I straight, or bisexual? Then I realized that I am just a slut.
So where's MY parade?"

---Margaret Cho

Wicked Wanda: Here is an interesting article to read about patriarchal ideals. patriarchal ideal It seems like it does refer to monogamous marriages. I think that perhaps Vigil slipped in the word "oppression" because the patriarchal ideal is often associated with female oppression.

sixsense: I personally think that it seems too idealistic for *most* couples. However, I commend those that have made their open marriage successful...I don't think I could do it.

Maturity? Selfishness?
HAH!
How dare you to presume to know my level of maturity, or if I am selfish?
If selfish means I want to be in charge of my self, my life, and my body, then yes, because...
I fuck whomever I want WHEN I want. I control my body, and my appetites.
I am not an animal, driven mindlessly to copulate, and to reproduce.
As a bisexual, primarily lesbian woman, I am not too likely to have a child.
I just happen to enjoy sex tremendously. I like having a variety of partners and sexual experiences. I fuck a lot!!!!
I do not desire to have to gain PERMISSION to do so.
(Lil, I wrote the first post before you posted your reply, I just am a slow typist.)
Lil is in a loving, NEGOTIATED arrangement.
So am I.
My arrangement is I am careful about disease, pregnancy, my own personal safety, and the safety of my home and loved ones.
And I fuck whomever I please.
I use "fuck" to cover any sexual encounter, as I sleep with other women more than I sleep with men. "Fuck" just seems to cover it all so well.
I was married, and in a "monogamous" relationship.
At least I though so.
Hubby, the dear rat bastard I have spoken of before, gave me an unplanned pregnancy, chlamydia, and gonnorhea.
If I had not suffered a "spontaneous AB" (a miscarriage to those of you not in medicine) I might have tried to stay married, to provide for my child.
THAT IS THE BEST REASON FOR MARRIAGE!!!!
The government also tries to makes it almost impossible to share your life with someone else without marriage.
Insurance, Social Security, visiting in the hospital, signing papers when the other person is sick, all these things are so frustrating without marriage, that stupid little piece of paper.
YES!!!
I AM PRO SAME -SEX MARRIAGE!!! -for this reason, and to protect any children involved...
But to enforce monagamy????
Please don't forget it was still illegal in several states to have sex with anyone other than your spouse until VERY recently. This was enforced very selectively.
Open marriage is about respect.
Respect for each other, for yourselves, and for any others involved.
That seems much more mature than enforced, unwanted monogamy.

Bitch Dyke Kitty Wanda is too tired to claw and rant anymore.

WW

__________________
"I wondered, am I a lesbian, am I straight, or bisexual? Then I realized that I am just a slut.
So where's MY parade?"

---Margaret Cho

HUGS Hi Cassie.
I read that link, and it is scary, but probably about right for 1933.
It supports the idea of the patriarchal society as an oppressive one for women.
But that seems to follow the definition, doesn't it?

I didn't answer any of sweet sixsense' questions though, did I?
Ok.
Jealousy.
I ALWAYS, ALWAYS come home. My loves know this, and it is a big part of the ease with which we have adopted this lifestyle. I never surprise my loves, I never keep dates from them, they always know where I am, and who I am with. (for safety- mine and theirs) I follow the AGREED ON RULES, about internet dating (never again) disease prevention, pregnancy avoidance, cell phone availabilty, emergency money, and to follow my instincts about people I meet face to face, which are very, very good.
I never leave my drink untended, and always watch the bartender make mine.
(Yes, it DOES sound like "Teen Girls' guide to dating" but it is also pretty much common sense stuff)
And I NEVER EVER, even when I am furious at my loves, make stupid comparison comments like "well she never treats me like that" refering to another sexual partner, or compare sexual techniques, or that "for a man he was pretty awsome" or "that was the best sex I ever had" kind of stuff.
Part of my obligation to my loves is to make her and him feel special, wanted, sexual, desirable, talented, even superior to those around them, all tempered with common sense. I am very lucky in that they are all these things anyway. Makes my obligation very light. Honest!!!
My belief in them and my love, respect, and admiration for them is what makes these things so easy to do.
And most importantly their respect, faith and love for me makes it possible for us to do this.
(Part 2, yes, they have open parts to their sexual lives as well, but very little, and the same rules apply.)

I am sure I have really confused everyone by now, but that's life.
Get over it.

Sexually polymorphicaly and polyamorously perverse,

WW

__________________
"I wondered, am I a lesbian, am I straight, or bisexual? Then I realized that I am just a slut.
So where's MY parade?"

---Margaret Cho

Wicked Wanda..... You go girl!!!!!!!!! I love your style!
I think you just became my mentor.

__________________
I am here for only a short time on this earth. My goal is to make everyone I see smile if only for a moment.

De facto is a accepted thing in Oz....Bilbo and I arent married...but in the eyes of the law we are

__________________

This is,very,simple,for my wife & I.We live in,what some may call,a fantasy
world.We have BOTH always believed that,somewhere in the world,is the only
mate for you.That you are DESTINED to be together.It may be a FANTASY
world,but we have had,a completely,unboring marriage for 39yrs.We don't
care what other people believe,but it has worked for us.It's called "Live &
let live"! Irish
P.S.Our marriage vows said-For better or worse-& that's what we have had!

__________________
Irish---Better to be dead & cool,then alive & uncool!
(Harley Davidson & the Marlboro Man)