false cause? interesting. i suppose it's possible: there may be lots of other reasons why people without a decent education end up committing more crime and having more unwanted babies. but it is a big difference and, unlike most false causes, is not a tenuous connection. the stat speaks for itself, i think. it's peculiar that you ask for data and when i provide it, you conclude it's false.

no, those programs are part of the regular school day. or, at least, they used to be.

jseal, you've mistaken my presumptions, assumptions and opinions as an argumentative attempt to persuade. i don't care to persuade anyone here, just saying what i think will be the consequence

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Trees give peace to the souls of men * Nora Waln

The forest would be very quiet if no other birds sang than those who sing the best * Henry van Dyke

some fairly sordid tales, rambles, and anecdotes
Hypothetically Speaking * Something More * Cammy Interrupted * An Experimental Vacation * Masked * so..damn..hot * Thank You * My toy, his idea * no.19 Maple Lane * I Have A Surprise For You * Yesterday * In a Quiet Kitchen * help me decide * untitled prose * more untitled prose

If you are referring to the inmate to GED ratio argument, I didn't say it was false. I said it looks suspiciously like a post hoc ergo propter hoc. If you can substantiate why you believe there is a causal relationship between the two rather than a casual or coincidental one, then I suspect you'll receive more support and less resistance to your proposal.


No mam, I don't believe I have. Your post #4 was an unambiguous attempt to persuade. For example, "now...follow me here...since the structure, nuance and nature of these budget cuts end up hurting city districts most (read: high per capita crime), there will be less money for after school programs. less productive stuff to do equals more crime. more crime needs more money in the budget to fight and punish." You are clearly advancing - "now...follow me here..." - the proposition that the budget cuts you oppose will result higher future costs - "less productive stuff to do equals more crime". That is an argument. A reasonable one, but one which is not, to my knowledge, supported by data.


That you do not care to persuade anyone is up to you, but in the absence of persuasion by you and others like-minded, do not expect the funding cuts to fall elsewhere. Persuasion through argument is how civilized people get others to do what they want without violence.

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Eudaimonia

I thought that blackmail, confusion and politics was how that happened.

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Calm, quiet, smooth, devastating

I was referring to civilized people.

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Eudaimonia

Damn, leaves us out then.

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Calm, quiet, smooth, devastating

I thought that was accomplished by badgering people on forums? But hey I am often wrong.

There is a lot of by-play here between people who have known each other a lot of years. It's been a while since I've seen a real sprayer here, they don't last long. Even in disagreement here, there is respect.

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Calm, quiet, smooth, devastating

I read your post to mean that you think I should not disagree with opinions expressed by others, and that I not rebut their responses. If you wish to weigh in on the subject, please do; if not do not.

What do you suggest as an alternative? That I remain silent when people propose some particular public expenditure without justification? wyndhy and I disagree about the degree of confidence one might reasonably have in what she presented as evidence.

When I engage in behavior you disagree with, you seem to have no problem speaking your mind. Do you extend the same entitlement to those who do not share your POV? You are entitled to your opinion, as is wyndhy. Neither you nor she is entitled to be correct.

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Eudaimonia

I agree.

It's Saturday night and my turn to be correct.

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Calm, quiet, smooth, devastating

So how about those Mets?

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"BOY: On a hot summer night, would you offer your throat to the wolf with the red roses? GIRL: Will he offer me his mouth? BOY: Yes. GIRL: Will he offer me his teeth? BOY: Yes. GIRL: Will he offer me his jaws? BOY: Yes. GIRL: Will he offer me his hunger? BOY: Yes. GIRL: Again, will he offer me his hunger? BOY: Yes! GIRL: Yes. BOY: On a hot summer night, would you offer your throat to the wolf with the red roses? GIRL: Yes. BOY: I bet you say that to all the boys!" -Meatloaf

Nope all wrong, just trying to be funny was all. ;P

Ah.

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Eudaimonia