Okay, I admit it. I don't get it.

I just read that the American hostage that was just killed in Iraq was tortured before he was executed. And I think we all remember the beheadings in Iraq too.

It certainly seems that the current manifestion of the Islamic religion seems to be similar to the Christian religion of the 1500s - when the Church ruled with an iron fist and there were the inquisitors/inquisition - and burning at the stake. The odd thing though, is that many folks try and deny it, yet the words Holy War, or Islamic Jihaad are all too common and all too easy to associate with the Muslims. Yet, we are also told the Islamic religion is not a violent one.

I realize that my point of view is largely amercanized, and Christian, but even in my open minded perspective, I am not coming up with the answers.

The question in my mind is, is the Islamic religion that violent, or is it just dominated by a vocal minority that is giving the religion - and arguebly a race of people - a bad name. I will also anticipate one answer, if it is just a band of a few, or a few small bands (vocal minority) why is the majority so silent?

Just laying it out there as a food for thought. I'm a "can't we all get along" guy, and have Muslim friends etc, but I am curious if anyone wonders about this like I do.

I'm not to clear on the issue either. But, I see it this way...Their traditions,culture and RELIGION have been intertwined for many years.So, if the majority of non-violent Muslims speak out against the violent minority....it seems to be a slap in the face to the Muslim "people" as a whole...in the eyes of the violent ones .

an example: the handful of right to lifers who bomb abortion clinics are condemned by the majority of right to lifers....the majority speaks out because the minority is made up of many races colors genders...not one traditional culture

Please don't rant to me about abortion or right to lifers...IT IS ONLY AN EXAMPLE

I think the point about the right to lifers as opposed to the clinic bombers is apt...the RTL movement is made up of people who share a common belief system, while the bombers are just terrorists...the same (I believe) applies to Islam, & as to why the majority don't speak out against those who promote terror in their name, may be it's just not a good time to jump up & announce that one is a Muslim right now, for obvious reasons...

__________________
Plug me into somethin'

If the theory does not conform to the facts, then the facts must be discarded.

No good deed ever goes unpunished

Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, & beat you with experience.

I listened to a discussion on the radio the other day, where an expert on Islam, was making the point that Islam is not and has never perported to be a 'peaceful religion'. It is militant and always has been. While Jesus preached about turning the other cheek, rather than fighting for the right, much to the frustrations of many of the Jews he was preaching to, Mohammed had a far more militant approach, and Islam, therefore reflects this.

HOWEVER, the vast majority of Muslim people do feel that the violence, terrorism and torture we currently see is wrong, and certainly in Britain, they are far from silent about it. Maybe, in this country our generally more apathetic nature, is finally a good thing as it does allow Muslims who've been an intergral and accepted part of the British community for a long long time now, to be heard without fear of the consequences. It's impossible for me to say, though, since I've no experience of how Muslims fit into American society.

To extend your comparison with the Christianity of the 1500s, why do you think that that was allowed to continue. Why didn't the silent majority speak up? Well, because when people who are violent, torturous and unscrupulous are in charge, the peaceful majority are in considerable danger, as it is, without sticking their necks out even further.

Principles are all very well and good, but people with all the power, also have all the money, and the majority have to concentrate on feeding (not to mention protecting) their families, not changing the world.

Incidentally, though, you don't need to go as far as the 1500s to see Christians behaving in wholly un-Christian ways. In the UK we lived with the daily threat of horrendous terrorist attacks as a result of the conflict in Northern Ireland - Christians killing Christians for the sake of religion.

And what about the allegations of Allied troops abusing Iraqi soldiers in prison camps and on the streets? Not a very Christian way of behaving.

I'm afraid that religion will always lead SOME people to feel that they are right, and somehow better than other people....and this leads them to the misguided notion that it's right for them to harm people who do not share their religious views. Why this has to happen I don't know.

It's not Islam that I don't get, or Christianity, or even religion as a whole.....it's people.

__________________
"Time flies like an arrow -
Fruit flies like a banana"

M Y - N A U G H T Y - P I C T U R E S ! !

The right to life supporters are, as I understand it, largely fundamentalist Christians, and show that religious extremism of any faith is very dangerous - don't single out Islam.

Islam is more than a religion - it is a way of life. Fellow muslims form part of a bigger fellowship and this is more important than ties of race, nationality, etc.

Loulabelle is right, as well. Islam is a crusading religion, originally intended to spread with conquest.

Personally, I would be happier if religion vanished off the face of the earth - it would be one fewer thing to fight about.

I agree mabelode as did Lennon:

Imagine

Imagine there's no heaven,
It's easy if you try,
No hell below us,
Above us only sky,
Imagine all the people
living for today...

Imagine there's no countries,
It isnt hard to do,
Nothing to kill or die for,
No religion too,
Imagine all the people
living life in peace...

Imagine no possesions,
I wonder if you can,
No need for greed or hunger,
A brotherhood of man,
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.

I've had Muslim friends I really liked, and there's an aspect to the religion I think is missing for most Christians....especially in America....which is a sense of community associated with being Muslim and sharing that set of beliefs and customs.

However, I've read quite a bit of the Qu'ran and I really dislike a lot of the things it has to say about women and their role in society, and about the crusading nature of the religion. There seems to be a lot of hate and many rules in Islam...and it's not a religion that speaks to me.

Most of the Muslims I know are good people, though. They don't believe everything the religion or religious leaders tell them....just like I don't like many portions of the Bible and don't always follow Christian tenets. (And I certainly avoid listening to our new Pope because IMHO he has some very backward views on the world).

I focus my time on getting to know the *people* around me -- regardless of religion. I like people who happen to be Muslim, or Christians, or Jews, or Scientologists, or Athiests. While religion certainly helps make them who they are, it has more to do with the mind and heart than where they go to worship.

__________________
Life is too short not to love and be loved....preferably multiple times in one night.

I think men talk to women so they can sleep with them and women sleep with men so they can talk to them. ~ Jay McInerney

Problems we are labelling as "Muslim" and "Christian" are really more cultural than religious.

Iran and Iraq, two Islamic nations, fought for a decade and killed over 4 million of each other with bombs, gas and probably nerve agents.

Shi'ite and Sunni are at each others throats worse than the Orange and the Green ever were in Iran.

People are beheaded publically and have hands chopped off (sharia law) in Saudi Arabia.

The religious burning of Tudor times and the Salem Madness show that we are not far off the same. We like to think we are non-violent and civilised, but it's all just a veneer.

__________________
Calm, quiet, smooth, devastating

Well said Oldfart.

One thing I hate to hear people say is: 'Don't Muslims who behave badly realise they're making a bad name for the whole religion?' Yeah, right....whereas Christians/Westerners have never done that all over the ENTIRE FRICKIN' WORLD! LOL

__________________
"Time flies like an arrow -
Fruit flies like a banana"

M Y - N A U G H T Y - P I C T U R E S ! !

I believe that people need belief systems and that the belief systems themselves are not the problem. The problem stems from the belief that your belief system should be imposed on everyone else.

__________________

The practice of putting women on pedestals began to die out when it was discovered that they could give orders better from there.~ Betty Grable

If I wanted your opinion, I'd remove the duct tape and ask you for it.~ Me
<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
One man's dream is another man's nightmare~~~~> §¤ Lilith ¤§
~>My Scribbles<~
==>Gone Shopping<== ~Just a Quickie~ *~A Celebration Vacation~* ~Surprises~ Sleeping With the Window Open
What Did You Do Today? Self Defense Class ~Short Sweet Snippets~ § Summer Spin § Story Challenge Submission Pajamas

Need, or want? If we require moral guidance, then how about a humanist approach without a god, like in Star Trek, for example. Belief in a god is not a need. I, for one, have no need. I require no reward for being "good" and no comfort to face death. However, belief in a god can be used to justify questionable behaviour, and that is a problem.



That is the crux of the problem. The fundamental basis of religion is that it is the one true way. That's a problem when there is more than one religion....

It’s not the specie, but the genus,...... or even the family. (family as in Hominid)

__________________

Are you expressing your own beliefs and thinking that the world would be better if we all thought that way???
















See we all do it. A belief system sans deity is still a belief

__________________

The practice of putting women on pedestals began to die out when it was discovered that they could give orders better from there.~ Betty Grable

If I wanted your opinion, I'd remove the duct tape and ask you for it.~ Me
<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
One man's dream is another man's nightmare~~~~> §¤ Lilith ¤§
~>My Scribbles<~
==>Gone Shopping<== ~Just a Quickie~ *~A Celebration Vacation~* ~Surprises~ Sleeping With the Window Open
What Did You Do Today? Self Defense Class ~Short Sweet Snippets~ § Summer Spin § Story Challenge Submission Pajamas

In fact, it's called "secular humanism," if I'm not mistaken.

I think I agree with you, Lil, "The problem stems from the belief that your belief system should be imposed on everyone else."

Exactly right. Just ask anybody of power. (They know because God told them so )

__________________