Sweetlady,

All very valid points again, but, again, I have to say that the argument swings both ways.

If Belial's humour is such an insignificant part of him as a whole, can't these people overlook it?

I work in a very lively office where there is a huge amount of banter, sexual innuendo and A LOT of swearing. One of my colleagues in particular cannot go through a day without saying the word 'cunt' at least three times, accusing other male colleagues of being gay just because it winds them up and taking the piss out of just about every race on the planet. He also makes sexist jokes and teases just about everyone mercilessly.

I also work with a middle aged black female Jehovah's Witness, who chooses to live her life without doing any of the above things, presumably because she feels they are wrong and that they would be offensive. However, she thinks the world of our vulgar colleague since he's genuinely a very kind, polite person and not a thing that comes out of his mouth is meant to be taken seriously. Just the other day she said to him, 'You're a very poite man, aren't you Dave?' as he has a good telephone manner and is very good at putting people at their ease.

My point is that consideration and toleration does have to go both ways, and if it can work in the extreme example I have given here, then I don't see why other less extreme personalities can't get along just fine.....it's all about live and let live.

__________________
"Time flies like an arrow -
Fruit flies like a banana"

M Y - N A U G H T Y - P I C T U R E S ! !

Because he is actively causing friction. He is striking against something that obviously distresses them, and quite simply doesn't care. Expecting the whole world to be jehovah's witnesses that ignore all rudeness and hatefulness from other people isn't really very realistic.

If someone went around poking someone in the ribs with a stick, we wouldn't berate the pokee for not tolerating it. But if it's verbal or mental poking, then suddenly the person on the recieving end is the one at fault for objecting. I wonder.

EDIT: By the way, I DO feel differently about "friends" or "constant aquaintances" like coworkers. That is what I am talking about, not just general people you'll pass by or encounter only at rare times. No, it's not reasonable to expect that you know what will offend people you don't know. But to deliberately attack friends with something you know bothers them because you think it's funny is wrong. That's my opinion. I don't do it. I don't stay around people who do it for very long. That's not a good friend, in my opinion.

Where in any of Belial's posts has he said he was 'actively causing friction' or 'deliberately attacking friends with something he knows bothers them because he thinks it's funny'?

I can see you feel strongly about this and have obviously had some personal experience of it, but just because you've got pain from other people's behaviour to you, it's never wise to assume you know exactly what happened in another case if you weren't even there.

__________________
"Time flies like an arrow -
Fruit flies like a banana"

M Y - N A U G H T Y - P I C T U R E S ! !

Well Belial all I can say is to each his own. If they don't like your humor they can always walk away. Unless you have tied them to the chair. LOL.

I like you and your humor Belial.

Read his first post. He has stated that they are offended, he does it anyhow. However, I have also qualified my reactions because he also said that it's not a clear area, thus making it hard to avoid accurately, and that this would be somewhat different, but still worth trying. Deliberately making jokes that you know to be offensive to people is a form of attack. Worse, if it's at their expense, which there is no indication whatsoever that he is doing.

I'm afraid I'm still inclined to disagree.

If Belial has to make a deliberate attempt not to crack jokes that would offend his acquaintances, how can it be said that he was deliberately making the jokes?

He is simply being himself, not going out of his way to offend people. Even if he tried to modify his behaviour, there would be the odd moment where he would lapse, so he sees little point in bothering.

And how about the fact that he is being attacked by being told he is 'sick' and should grow up? Hasn't anyone told his acquaintances that name calling is not a very grown up thing to do and that 'going off in a huff' is certainly not either. How about a more grown up reaction from the people he's offended? What's wrong with them saying 'I'm sorry Belial, but I find what you've said offensive' rather than just calling him a name, dispensing some impossible to follow advice (how on earth does someone just 'grow up'?) and then storming off, before he's had a chance to apologise, defend himself or anything.

By the way, Belial, I do apologise that I keep talking about you to Sweetlady as though you aren't here! You know I love ya! x

__________________
"Time flies like an arrow -
Fruit flies like a banana"

M Y - N A U G H T Y - P I C T U R E S ! !

Not a problem at all Lou

No-one has really told me to grow up or that I'm sick. It's more a general impression I get. I should give a concrete example. Let's call the girl involved 'C'.

C has a new boyfriend. She remarks that he is metrosexual. I think immediately of the etymology of the word that Wicked Wanda posted a while ago and start laughing. C asks why I'm laughing. Another friend, B, explains that we have something of a running joke involving that word, that the word "metrosexual" means "motherfucker". C interprets this as me calling her boyfriend a motherfucker and yells her protest at me. She is absolutely not interested in hearing the basis for the joke. This is normal for C. She's too busy being offended by what I have to say to wonder why I might say it and actually engage in some sort of dialogue.

I am certainly not trying to offend C at all. The problem is that I'm finding it basically impossible to express myself (and this extends to more than jokes) without offending her or upsetting her or "making [her] feel stupid" or make her feel as if she's "talking to a 25 year old".

If I didn't like her at all this would pose no problem, because I wouldn't care. But that's not the case.

__________________
I want to know everything
I want to be everywhere
I want to fuck everyone in the world
I want to do something that matters

Belial,

I have found people like 'C' everywhere. Not twice a day everyday, but they seem to be unavoidable. They are part of the landscape, so I accept that I'll have to work around them. It may be inconvenient, but doing so results the least net negative to my life.

I wish I had something more upbeat to offer.

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Eudaimonia

I would have wanted to laugh, too, I'm afraid.

It sounds like she's extremely insecure, and I would venture to guess that she thinks you are cool, and that for whatever reason, percieves that you look down on her. In that case, it seems she took it as a criticism of her for her choice in boyfriends.

I'm curious, have you spoke to her privately for a few minutes? "I realize that sometimes my humor is odd, please, when it hurts your feelings, can you let me explain before you get upset? Often times, it comes off differently than how it really is, and I know your feelings have been hurt by that. I would like to be able to explain to tell you what I really mean, because it is never my intent to mock or hurt you. Would you give me that chance when you think I am making jokes about you, before you accept that assumption?"

If you speak to her in this manner, then you have covered yourself, and if she chooses to continue to be offended, that's her own choice. Once you make it very clear to her that she has taken things out of context without giving you chance to explain yourself, and have made it clear you sincerely don't mean to hurt or offend her, then the ball is in her court.

Done it, many times. She always tells me not to worry about it and that we just see things differently, but how can I not worry about upsetting a friend?

__________________
I want to know everything
I want to be everywhere
I want to fuck everyone in the world
I want to do something that matters

You can not worry about it by accepting two things. 1. You've done what you can, and spoken to her about it, and she rejects your attempts to create peace. 2. She is unpredictable, over-sensitive, and unreasonable.

You do have a responsibility. You have covered it. You can do that much, and no more. It's unfortunate that SHE HAS DECIDED that your private conversations and reassurances are not good enough.

I once told a friend who was breaking up with his psychotic ex... "You can only be as kind to her as she allows you to be." Meaning, at some point, the responsibility leaves you, and arrives at their doorstep. If you've spoken to her, and sought hard to reassure her, then you can do no more because you've laid the responsibility square at her feet and she has chosen to ignore it.