02-22-2005, 11:01 PM
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♦*♥Moderatrix♥*♦
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I'm curious as to what you read that makes you suggest this?
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02-22-2005, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lilith
I'm curious as to what you read that makes you suggest this?
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He has repeated several times that she appears to be looking to him for advice and for guidance. In spite of the several times that he has "mis spoken" his intentions, it appears to me that he genuinely cares for her, and he wishes to provide the guidance she's seeking, but he's frustrated as to how to do it. I'm suggesting that he read the site, and talk with her about her feelings, because if she keeps coming to him and seeking guidance, it's entirely possible that she bases all of her "what's dirty and what's not" on the word of those whom she sees as authority figures, and has no real sense of what SHE thinks of as being actually dirty or wrong. This is typical submissive behavior.
(EDIT: It would also cause her to feel like doing something "dirty" will run him off, even if she may be intrigued or interested in it. It's a whole other thing when told to do it than when having to make a decision to do it or not, and take the risk of being seen as dirty or bad by someone whose opinion matters extremely greatly to you.)
I am further explaining to him that if he wants to become that authority figure whose viewpoints she accepts as being "right" he will have to earn it and quit trying to just wrestle it away from her. If he wants to learn the responsible, mature, intelligent way of becoming someone whom she trust to tell her (again, ASSUMING SHE IS SUBMISSIVE) what is and what is not "appropriate" then he will have to learn to take responsibility, and to accept guidance himself before he can ever, ever hope to guide someone else.
But you can feel free to remove my posts if you want, doesn't matter to me, was just trying to offer my insights, pathetic though they may be.
Last edited by sweetlady : 02-22-2005 at 11:22 PM.
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02-22-2005, 11:21 PM
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♦*♥Moderatrix♥*♦
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I agree it's submissive behavior but does not mean she has any urge/need/desire/consciousness to enter into a dominant/submissive sexual relationship like that of the BDSM lifestyle. If "submission is a gift" the giver must consciously give it and not simply be someone who has not found their own way yet. She seems to be a virgin who is naturally forming her ideas of sexuality based on external ideas. Once she has some experiences to build on then she will be better prepared to make decisions about what she wants/needs/believes from her own internal sources. I see your reasoning but respectfully disagree with your suggestion. No reason to remove your post...we are all posting as arm chair quarterbacks seeing as how none of us really know the circumstances from her point of view. Your opinion is as worthy as anyone's.
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02-22-2005, 11:27 PM
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That's why I was careful to give a site that stresses repeatedly and constantly the need for both partners to be aware. And again, this is not so much a BDSM site, it is almost, but not quite, exclusively a D/s site. I have already stated that he should NOT assume she desires pain. This site stresses the importance of consentual understanding by both partners. It stresses knowing the limits of your partner and not crossing them, and the partner having full understanding of what the relationship is.
There are elements of the BDSM there, but the vast majority of the site is devoted to the D/s portion of the relationship and the responsibilities the dominant partner has.
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02-23-2005, 12:14 AM
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I'm familiar with the site...just seems fruitless to me. I obviously just see this situation differently than you do. She has stated her limits in wanting to retain her virginity (which could be seen as anything but submissive) but he mentions attempting to remove her "blocks". IMO that's not the sign of a person who makes a good Dom (respecting limits). Nothing I've read suggests she has the background to know whether she would consciously choose submission. And reading a website, no matter how wonderful it is, is not going to give her real life experiences to help her make those choices. I agree it's a great site but I think it's sort of putting the cart before the horse in this case. I suppose we all draw our conclusions based on our own personal experiences and from my experience this situation doesn't scream D/s to me. I'm sure some would argue that broadening one's knowledge base is never fruitless.
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02-23-2005, 01:36 AM
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Freeze!
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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You 2 aren't getting into a cat fight over little old me are you? lol
Seriously though, she isn't a sub nor am I a dom. I'm just your average Jo who has stumbled upon a beautiful cherry blossom. Now sex isn't the issue here. Just to fill in a blank here as well, she tried masturbation the other night and as it was her first time it was all new to her and as such nothing happened. Anyway, moving on. The one thing I have asked her to do, is to keep an open mind with new things. Nothing more. I am taking my time with her and only pushing in a gentle manner. I am only moving at her pace with a slight bump from me. I am gaining her trust slowly.
I do understand and respect that it is her decission in the end. I am not stupid. Each of us is different when it comes to sex. I remember my first time which I have posted on a thread on the subject. It is as scary as hell delving into the unknown. All I am attempting to do is to hold her hand through the murky waters. She is in Malaysia until Friday and she get's back to Australia on saturday. Now the last time I saw her was last year as she had to leave to see family in Malaysia. So physically nothing has happened. I do talk with her via msn and have got a good rapor going. So far, I have done everything in a respectful manner. Cheeky sure, (who isn't?) we have a few laughs and that is that. I am beginning to understand her more now as we have gradually progressed. That is what's important.
It may seem as though I have done a 180 here. All I can say is the advice given to me in here, has shown me that in order to get to point Z from point A, I have to go through all the other ones first. That is what I am doing.
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02-23-2005, 07:04 AM
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♦*♥Moderatrix♥*♦
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No cat fight just very different views on a situation.
I liked your cherry blossom analogy. She seems to be someone who has had a fairly sheltered existence, and has not had the opportunity to find out how it all works on her own quite yet. I think it's great you want to accompany her on this journey. I don't think she needs a guide and she certainly doesn't need a Dom. It will be an honor to see how she changes as she ripens  Mark you are a lucky man (but you seem to know that). |
02-23-2005, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mark Vieth
You 2 aren't getting into a cat fight over little old me are you? lol
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First off, there is a history here you don't know about, so putting your foot into it isn't wise at all.
Second off, if you want help, I suggest you attempt to treat people with some respect.
I came into this thread and, despite seeing you gleefully rub any number of people the wrong way, I chose to offer you advice in a sincere and serious manner. Your comment isn't funny. Nor is it cute. It's not appreciated, or appropriate. Perhaps you should start at working on curbing your tongue before you work on anything else, because all you have done in this entire thread is alienate everyone who has offered you sincere advice with it.
If you want people to take you seriously and be respectful towards you, then I strongly suggest that you learn to keep your mouth shut until you know people. If you had bothered to take the time to do that, you'd realize how extremely inappropriate your statement was. Sarcasm and humor at the expense of others is to be used sparingly and with a great deal of humility and WISDOM, or it simply makes you look bratty, childish, churlish, and rude.
I chose to give you the benefit of the doubt, mostly on Sharni's words. So let me help you out a little bit. For her sake, as someone who vouched for you, maybe you should tone it down and show some RESPECT towards those attempting to help you.
Respect does not include making crass jokes towards and/or about women you don't know. Not all of us appreciate your brand of humor, and personally, I found you rather oblivious and obtuse before, now I simply find you rude and annoying. Even after I read through the thread and saw how abrasive you are, I still tried hard to give it an honest and sincere try.]
And if you want to, you can get defensive and lash out at me. Before you do, keep in mind that YOU chose to be disrespectful. The comments like this that you make are what cause people to think you're an ass and that you don't respect women. Because your comments and behavior say you do not.
"Don't have a catfight over little old me" is locker room talk. It's never appropriate when said to two women you don't know. EVER. It is furthermore extremely, EXTREMELY disrespectful to say it to your elders when they are having nothing more than a simple, respectful disagreement on point of view. It makes you look like an ill-mannered clod.
If you wonder why no one appears to appreciate your humor, it's not because no one appreciates your humor as it is. It's because you misuse it. No stranger wants to hear jokes at their expense. I am not your friend, I am not your buddy, and if you continue to alienate me with rudeness, with snide comments, and with disrespect, then I never will be. It is your choice to make.
Lastly, learn when things are serious. If you make jokes like that in the middle of serious, important discussions, your girlfriend will never ever take YOU serious when you say that you respect her. No woman will EVER believe you respect her when you blurt out inappropriate, sarcastic jokes in the middle of serious conversations. In fact, most men will quickly tire of that behavior as well.
In a nutshell:
Don't make jokes with people until you know them. NEVER make jokes at people's expense until you know them very well. If you do, you set yourself up to be disliked. It is rude, it is disrespectful, and it is your own fault when people turn a cold shoulder on you afterwards. Learn to curb your tongue, or live with the consequences.
If you want people to believe your constant cries of "I do too respect women!" then quit making crass, rude, stupid jokes about women, particularly ones you don't know. This is a mixed forum, not the locker room, knock it off.
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02-23-2005, 07:45 AM
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♦*♥Moderatrix♥*♦
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You feel this way and suggested he look into his responsibilities as a Dom?
He made another off the cuff remark (in jest, be it sexist or not, it was meant as a tension breaker), most likely because he felt uncomfortable being the center of our opposing views. Not a brilliant choice but he did try to clarify his position as he sees it in his relationship which did not coincide with your opinion. You have chosen to respond by chastizing him. It seems to be a pattern as has been viewed in other threads where your view does not match the situation and others disagree with you. If you are going to pipe up an opinion then you need to be prepared to have it questioned. While chastizing his attitude you might want to take 5 minutes to reflect on yours as well. I don't need you to tell Mark how he should or should not respond to me. You speak for yourself (especially where you spouted that respect your elders stuff, respect is earned). If this thread taught me anything it's that if I need clarification I should go to the source before I jump on someone for what I perceive. That's why I simply asked you to show me how you were drawing the conclusions you did.
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02-23-2005, 07:49 AM
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Mama Mia!
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Please...I think Mark has been flamed enough since he's been here. He was trying to be funny, not disrespectful.
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02-23-2005, 07:53 AM
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♦*♥Moderatrix♥*♦
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I certainly felt that was his intention too and is why I did not take it to heart. If I were chastized for every time I said something off the cuff then I'd be in a world of trouble  |
02-23-2005, 08:24 AM
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I'm not "chastising" him for disagreeing with me. I'm "chastising him" for jumping in with remarks when he doesn't know the situation. As I stated, there is a history here, and I do not wish to be the butt of jokes that involve people who have in the past caused me to feel that I am completely unwelcome here. Clearly that feeling was correct.
I suggested what I did because I chose to give him the benefit of the doubt, and because I felt he was already showing some of the tendencies. I was hoping that if he was going to continue to "guide" and direct her, that he would read up on it and take a less blundering and oblivious approach to it. But not to worry, I am regretting having done so, on several levels. Not the least of which is that I figured before I even did that I would be flamed for it by other women in particular. I think it's best that I simply don't say anything more about anything, as my opinion is not welcome here, and that was made clear to me before. I simply had made the mistake of thinking that I had misunderstood or taken it too seriously/personally.
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02-23-2005, 08:31 AM
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I stated clearly and meant it, your opinion is as worthy as anyone else's. You are perfectly welcome to have your say but be ready to have it questioned, especially when others see it as coming from left field. You are just as responsible for what you post as is anyone else. You were in no way flamed...your opinion was questioned,clarification was requested. If you can't see a difference then you might be right that you take things too personally. We all do at times.
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02-23-2005, 09:04 AM
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Freeze!
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Hey it's not my fault people can't take a bit of a joke. Even if it was meant as a tension breaker. Man I hate being the centre of attention. I had finished this thread with that big "thank you" to all. As far as I was concerned this topic is over and done with.
Sweetlady, I don't disrespect people with sly or inappriate remarks. I am australian and I have a different sense of humour than most. Now it has gotten me into hot water on more than one occasion in here. But everyone adjusted and understand my humour.
Now not to jump on the band wagon here, but Lil is right. You missinterpretated what I said. I wasn't having a go at anybody. I did get into the seriousness of the thread and spoke about it.
I have one thing to say also Sweetlady, be careful of what you say. You said that I shouldn't jump in on things that I don't understand. Well maybe YOU should heed your own advice and not jump into things you don't understand!
Last edited by Mark Vieth : 02-23-2005 at 09:23 AM.
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02-23-2005, 09:43 AM
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Made in England
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You know I guess I should have gone with my first impression at the start of this thread and called on Chinese Pussy to have a go at it....
I'm sure she would have been able to enlighten us all on the cultural differences regarding sex for asian women. She does have a definate edge on the issue....
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