I personally believe there are different types of sex, just like there are different types of love. Love is easier to demonstrate to let's do that first...

Do you love your kids/mom/family the same way you love your SO? I think not.

Now...Let's talk about sex. I can enjoy sex with my S/O -- perhaps for the emotional connection, perhaps for comfort...sometimes even because he's good at it (when he's willing, of course...which is rare).

But sex with someone else...perhaps because of your friendship with them, or because of physical attraction, or novelty...is different. Some people have a "need" to experience both in their lives.

Who am I to judge?

__________________
Life is too short not to love and be loved....preferably multiple times in one night.

I think men talk to women so they can sleep with them and women sleep with men so they can talk to them. ~ Jay McInerney

So, then, hun....

-people are replaceable? Taking that as you wrote it....if John Boys wee wee won't come out to play, I can just go to Mikey's house and play with his wee wee and be 100% satisfied, even though Mikey's wee wee is nothing like John Boy's, and I can just temporarily forget that I happen to be nuts for John Boys wee wee?

-committment means nothing?
We can go from person to person and let them fill up all the holes inside us that our partner managed to miss? It's OK to give our energy to a third party (or more) versus giving it to the *special* relationship we share with our significant other and working to make it better?
Where is the honor in that? How will this change whatever problems we share with our special significant other? (Three guesses!) At the end of the day, you're still coming home to the same problem, only now your dick/kitty can feel a little better about it. *Nods*
Ain't that just special?

_I'm 43 years old, I know all about "different circumstances". My whole life has been about "different circumstances".

_I don't recall saying anywhere at all that everything is right with my relationship.


I'm sorry if I seem hostile and close minded; I certainly didn't start out this way. But along my journey, I learned in the hardest possible manner what one persons selfishness can do to another. I learned what disrespect can do to someone you supposedly love. I learned that people are unbelievably greedy, and treat their bodies and their sexuality as if its one huge buffet table, and they are supposed to sample every single offering. I learned that at the first sign of trouble, we are oh so quick to cut and run. And I have learned that love isn't all beautiful sunrises and earth shattering passion. Sometimes, it isn't very romantic, sometimes it's unfair, sometimes it's ugly and sometimes it hurts. But always, always it is something that is worth feeding and nurturing every single day, it's not a "sometimes" kind of thing.
I just cannot see how allowing a third party into it can possibly take it where it should/could go.
And I've learned that love is much more patient and kind than we deserve it to be. It can change, no matter how hopeless we feel it is. I'd rather stick around and let it.
Don't we all want the ultimate, the very best?
When someone cheats, they are cheating more than just their partner, they are cheating the relationship, and they are cheating themselves.

Disclaimer: I'd love to start this sentence with "I'm sorry", but I'm not.
I can't stand a damn cheat, and people that think the world revolves around their sexual needs, and those so selfish as to risk hurting someone else just so they can feel good for a bit. With all the damn toys and pornographic aids on the market today, and the fact that this seems to be all about instant sexual gratification and intimacy, (though how intimate can it be with someone you don't love, someone that is merely a fuck buddy?) there is absolutely no reason good enough to decide to cheat the relationship you've committed yourself to, and the effects of what that does to the married person you're fucking and their marriage is another thread, thankfully.

Do I have all the answers? Not in the least, but I do have guidelines of how I need to live my life and I don't get to change them mid script. I do know the difference between right and wrong, and I have to accept the fact that life will seldom suit me and that every single day can't be all about me, much less about me and my kitty.

Thanks!

Revy,
You're entitled to your opinion and feelings, just as the rest of us are. But I don't see where anyone suggested that YOU *should* go out and cheat. You have your own morals and ethics and I don't think any of us would dream of trying to get you to go against them.

But please try to understand, some of us have tried and tried to get our s/o's to understand our needs, but they have continually refused to do anything to meet our physical and even our emotional needs. I have tried for YEARS to get thru to him. It's like talking to a wall. I would rather be with him than anyone else. But it's NOT going to happen, and that's his choice not mine.
Yes, there are toys and there is porn, but that doesn't take the place of feeling wanted by another human being, feeling that you're still worth something to someone, and feeling you're still desirable. Lying in bed next to someone who, although they say they love you, refuses to touch you in any sexual way makes you feel like you're diseased or somehow repulsive to that person. So finding someone who does want to touch you and make love to you keeps you from going insane. I never went looking for a lover, never had any intentions of cheating, in fact rebuffed him repeatedly before he wore me down. You can only endure emotional and physical starvation for so long. I love my husband and in all other aspects of our life we have a very good relationship. And if by some miracle tomorrow he could and wanted to make love to me, that would be the end of my affair and my lover knows it.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin
*******************
My Stories:
Dream Date
Just Desserts
Internet Lovers Meet - Part 1
Internet Lovers Meet - Part 2
Internet Lovers Meet - Part 3
RAVISHED!!
My Birthday - A Fantasy

You realize we're coming at this from the same place...pain, don't you?

I do understand, God how I do, it's just that I cannot and will not see an affair as being the solution.

I'm not judging you or anyone else, and I'm sorry if I made you feel you needed to defend yourself.
I often wonder why I always stumble right into this topic everywhere I go. (It always ends up the same way.) I guess its just wishing people would find another way, but there really is no point trying to explain it anymore. I would like to say that I'm not some cold hearted bitch just having a bad day, I've lived this, and I do understand.

All I can say is you do what you have to do ... And SS I know you are doing whats right for you and have no need to apologize or feel ashamed of it. I have had many of the same problems (which you well know) and deal with it in the ways that I do. Have I ever had sex with a married person? Yes I have. I do not apologize for it or regret it. Have I had sex outside my marriage? Yes I have but my husband has known about it beforehand in the instances which it occurred and I knew of his experience outside of marriage. I do not think everyone should just go out and have sex with someone other than thier spouse but only you can decide what you can do and live with and what can make or break your marriage. There have been long stretches (although not quite as long as SS) that my hubby has not been interested in sex at all due to both mental and physical constraints and in those times I have weighed my options and did or did not do what I felt I needed to do. So just remember don't judge another til you walk a mile in his moccasins (or in this case go without sexual contact for long periods of time )

__________________
Would you cater to every fantasy I've got? Would you hose me down with holy water if I get to hot? Can you take me places I've never known?

Sucks, Fucks & Kisses

"Set free your morals should be written on every door." --Hothouse Flowers

The conversation is getting heated, but fascinating. I think it's important to know what you'll stand for, what you will not, and find the person or persons who agree with you. And be strong enough, and honest enough, to clearly state your needs. If you want life long fidelity, don't date the polyamorous person. Neither of you will be happy, and each of us deserves what we desire and need. We don't have to settle.

I have been married to my best friend for almost 10 years, together 13, and he's still my favorite person on the planet. We've had our share of marital misery, just like other people. He was my first, and has always been a wonderful, fantastic, creative, and generous lover. But that doesn't mean I wasn't curious.

I had lovers. He had a couple. It wasn't cheating, in my book, because we did it it with each others full knowledge, consent, encouragement, and, sometimes, participation. I won't say it wasn't hard sometimes--horribly hard. But I don't regret it for a minute, and I'd do it again, smarter this time. I learned that there IS a difference between love and sex, that you CAN love more than one person at a time, that there are different kinds of love. I learned a lot of things about myself and my world.

I think maybe where the feeling of betrayal may lie is not necessarily in the sex, but in the lies, the hiding, symptomatic of the breakdown (and subsequent letdown) that means you can no longer tell each other what you need, what you want.

Sometimes you can fix it, sometimes you can't. I think it'd be ideal for folks to be honest and make a clean break, or even appreciate what they have and go looking for the missing pieces, and find their bliss, but I don't know their situation. It's easy for me to give advice from way over here.

I know you're in pain, Revy. Sound like a lot of folks are. But we all will have to find our own way, make our own mistakes. And maybe there are better ways for people to ease their pain, but I for one can't fault them for finding whatever way they can.

As for your comment, "I do have guidelines of how I need to live my life and I don't get to change them mid script. I do know the difference between right and wrong, and I have to accept the fact that life will seldom suit me and that every single day can't be all about me," I don't believe the script is written. I believe you write it every day, every hour, every second. I think that with every breath, you can change your life. I think life SHOULD suit you, and if it ain't, it's time to stop suffering. You deserve joy. You were born for joy; every day is about you. It's already yours--reach out and take it.

Hugs,
Red

__________________
OTP, siempre

My photo threads...

Latest: Cool April Morning

XXXII XXXIII XXXIV XXXV XXXVI XXXVII XXXVIII XXXIX

Stories
Thank You, Come Again / Robyn's Roommate / Seamus, Charlotte, and the Showgirl / God, It's Good to Be Queen

"I walk with my head held high and naked in the sun, claiming these streets for myself."--Jonatha Brooke

Well Said , I too have been on the recieving end of a Cheating Spouse , My wife and My best friend of 30 yrs , some friend Huh Well He is still my best friend , He showed Me what kind of Person I was Married too , And I got the best end of the Divorce , I got everything including My kids . and He got Her Lol He really should Hate Me for that Lol . But now They are split so she has nothing . So Take Heart It really does All work out for the Best . Big ((((Hug))))

__________________
If I have to explain it you wouldn't understand

Don't Judge Me By Your Ignoance

I had Rather Be Hated for What I am Than Loved For What I am Not .

Believe me, I totally sympathize with those of you who have been cheated on for no reason whatsoever. There is no excuse for that kind of behavior and had my husband cheated on me I would have a hard time forgiving him. I have never, in all our years of marriage, refused him anything. And were the situation reversed right now and I was physically unable to perform my "wifely duties", I would stand on my head to find an alternative and do what I could to show him I love him, and subsequently satisfy him. First of all simply because I love him that much. Secondly because I wouldn't want to risk pushing him into the arms of someone willing to provide what I could not and would not. But for whatever reason he doesn't seem to think along the same lines.

Typically, men with erectile dysfunction and lack of libido, close themselves off from their women. They are afraid that if they make any sexual move whatsoever the woman will want more than they are capable of giving. So to protect themselves from feeling like a failure they give nothing at all. He tried viagra because of my repeated begging and it didn't perform an instant 'miracle' so he simply gave up and pulled even farther away. One morning after being rejected yet again I began to cry. He came around to my side of the bed, and, genuinely puzzled, he asked me "Is it really that important to you?" I tried to get through to him that it wasn't the sex alone that was important, but what hurt was that I felt him pulling away from me even further. He has reconciled himself to having no sex drive and doesn't understand why I can't do the same.

In all other areas of our life together we get along great. He is my best friend. We have rarely argued in our nearly 32 yrs of marriage. He has been there for me and with me through some very hard times, as I have been for him. We've raised 3 sons together. But I need more than a buddy and a roommate, and he refuses to understand that. I can't tell you how many nights I've cried myself to sleep because he can't bring himself to touch me. And I mean touch in it's simplest form, not sexual intercourse. There is no cuddling, no caressing, no stroking. And he won't let me touch him either. We may as well be strangers when we turn out the light and get under the covers. Oh he does tell me he loves me and kisses me goodnight, but that's as far as it ever goes.

It's a proven scientific fact that babies will not thrive without skin on skin contact from another human being. Do we need that any less because we are adults? I'm sorry if you can't understand.

It does hurt to be judged harshly when I know I have done everything in my power to not have to look elswhere. I won't leave him because whether anyone wants to believe it or not I DO LOVE HIM! If a miracle happened tomorrow and he was once again willing and able I would be the happiest woman in the world and my outside activities would come to an immediate end without a second thought.

I can't try to explain myself or justify my actions any more. It's too emotionally draining. I know in my heart that I don't take my actions lightly and would much prefer to be with my husband than any other man.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin
*******************
My Stories:
Dream Date
Just Desserts
Internet Lovers Meet - Part 1
Internet Lovers Meet - Part 2
Internet Lovers Meet - Part 3
RAVISHED!!
My Birthday - A Fantasy

Once when I was single...
Let's just say it got very late, her husband had left the nightclub at which we were dancing, and there was a lot of Tequila a hot Mexican night an all too willing very attractive partner.
I felt terrible the next day for a number of reason...but got some relief when her husband said that he actually encouraged her to "Go for it!" This of course was in the Pre death defying STD days...
If the same situation occurred today…and I was single? I really don’t know what I would do probably go home and sleep on it.

__________________
Sex is a tricky thing best left to professionals.

I certainly would never take that choice away from you. You should live your life however is comfortable for you. I am sorry if you thought any differently. I respect your feelings and your personal credo.
I'm also sorry about whatever has happened to you that has created your hostility and closed mindedness. Please don't let me add to it. My response was not personal in nature. Just allow me my opinion without censure. Thanks.

__________________
Lots of people talk and few of them know, soul of a woman was created below

I can't get through to her 'cause it doesn't permit
But I'm gonna give her everything I've got to give.

I hear your sweet voice calling
out my name
As I stare from a six foot cell
And from beyond I heard the words
Deceptively Yours

I read all that has passed above.....and am taking two lessons home with me. First, that I'm a lucky girl to have the man I do.....not bragging, just thanking everyone for the reminder. Second, that life is not a "one size fits all" commodity.

I'm sorry for the pain, I can't fix any one it...and the fixer in me hates that. But I hope it helps a tiny bit that someone's learned something from it.

Hugs all around.

G

Thanks for your kind words , I am not bitter about My Ex , I was at first , but as I said I got the best of Her in the Divorce . I got My kids which was the Main thing to me ( I would Have given her everything to get them) But I got the Land , House , Cars , everything all she left with was what she came in to the Marrage with , Her clothes and some odds and ends . I still have trust issues , But I am trying to work through them .

I really didn't mean to get such a heated discussion going when I started this thread...I was friends with a Married woman , and she was in a bad marrage and was tempted to take our relationship up a notch . I was just wanting some feed back .

Sugarsprinkels , I am sorry for your delima I am sure you have search your heart and soul for a long time for what to do . I am not Judging you. I have a thought I have a friend who Has the same problem your Hubby has He had an Implant put in and it has a pump and all he has to do is pump it up and go for it...He says it will stay up as long as she want it to Btw He is 60 something and his wife is in her later 20's and they had a child about two yrs ago .

__________________
If I have to explain it you wouldn't understand

Don't Judge Me By Your Ignoance

I had Rather Be Hated for What I am Than Loved For What I am Not .

HR, Thanks for the suggestion. I do realize there are options out there and have made sure hubby knows about them. The problem is he has no desire whatsoever, and seems quite resigned to living the rest of his life this way. The men who get the implants and use other remedies still want sex but just can't get an erection. He not only can't get an erection, he doesn't care that he can't. That's the crux of the matter. He not only doesn't care, but doesn't understand why I do and thinks I shouldn't care either. *sigh*

He's 57, I'm 55. We haven't had sex since we were 43 and 41. We can expect to live another 20 to 30 yrs. I can't face living the rest of those years without any physical affection, even if he can.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin
*******************
My Stories:
Dream Date
Just Desserts
Internet Lovers Meet - Part 1
Internet Lovers Meet - Part 2
Internet Lovers Meet - Part 3
RAVISHED!!
My Birthday - A Fantasy

Hi,
I really am impressed with how you quoted me out of context, and how you continue to misread me.

Since this is a discussion board, I am free to discuss. I haven't called anyone names, behaved childishly, or in any way censored you or your opinions. If anything, I have said that i understand, and I do. I'm understanding and compassionate because I've lived so hard that I often felt I'd been left for dead, and would go to great lengths to spare anyone else that kind of pain. For the most part, that is why I come to places like this, to share.

Situations like those in this thread go right to the heart, and can shape a person for the rest of their life. Sometimes, it gets so kinked up that it could take the rest of our lives to repair the damage.

For me, there is a difference between being "closed minded", and knowing the difference between right and wrong. Not only do I know the difference, but I have lived out what those differences mean. I offer compassion to anyone on either side of this because I know those feelings so well.
If having a different perspective than you or anyone else equates to being close minded, then color me close minded and put me in the corner. But just know that I didn't make it this far without learning that actions create repercussions, that our actions cost us and those closest to us, and often, those we don't even know, so much more than we ever imagined. For me, there can be no happiness in hurting someone I care for, and living a lie. If any of those having affairs were to tell their SO, I'd have no problem with it. But see, I've been the one cheated on, and it hurt so bad I wanted to die and I will never forget those feelings. I've also been the daughter of a cheater, and the lifelong best friend of a cheater that cheated me with my sons father. Sorry, I have no tolerance.
Yet, I do have the understanding of how the one doing the cheating may feel when they push their SO away, because I've done that to, for reasons I didn't fully understand, much less know how to cope with. And what did I do? I cheated. I cheated with a man I'd met online, in a forum where rape was being discussed. It was emotional cheating at first. In retrospect, I realize that I was finally ready to address it and attempt to change my life, he became my crutch, that one person I would let in, that I could share all my ugly truths with...probably BECAUSE he was online and I felt safe. I needed so much to convince myself that my issues and the way I saw myself since I was a little girl were not accurate, that there really wasn't anything wrong with me, and I could perform just fine, if I just had the "right" man. *sigh*
I was so wrong.
I was miserable, so incredibly angry with myself and my mess of a life that I couldn't help but accept the truth. I couldn't go on until I finally took care of me, something I'd never done. I'd been so busy trying to outrun childhood rape that I had no feelings inside at all, except for those negative, abusive feelings about myself that I fed daily, I had no idea who I was or what I needed or wanted. All I knew was that I was wrong, everything about me and my life was wrong and it had to stop. Eventually, I completely shut down because I needed help that I never got, in the the thirty something years that I needed it. When I snapped and began to move forward, there was so much damage done from that and so many other misfires that I just couldn't turn back the clock and I ended my marriage.
Was he my soulmate, the love of my life? No. But I was his, and look what I did to him.
It was impossible for anyone to be my soulmate, I was too busy second guessing any goodness shown me, not trusting a soul and stomping on and burying anything about me that was good.

I have trouble believing that we can love someone, consider them our soulmate or whatever word you choose to describe the most important person in your life, and then share something so intimate, something that is such a precious gift, something meant to be shared with them that THEY BELIEVE is theirs and theirs alone, with someone else. How do we take feelings meant for one, and give them to another? How do we find any fulfillment from the new one, and still say that its our SO that we want and need? And how on earth can we ever explain it to them, once they find out and the questions start?
If I burn for one, he is the only one that can satisfy that burn. Anything less than that is not enough to risk that love.

In closing, (this is my belief, pertaining only to me, OK?) if I am dissatisfied with any serious aspect of my relationship, then I must take action to address it. If that action fails or goes nowhere, then I have to weigh a lot of things to determine if I stay or go. At no time does bringing in a third party ever enter into the question of how to fix what is wrong in my relationship. Thats because a third party can't fix what is wrong in my relationship.
If I need something so much so that i'm frequently in tears, unfulfilled and don't see any hope that I will ever be fulfilled, then I end the relationship. If I find myself saying, "but I love him, I can't possibly go..." then I know I've gotten down to the heart of it and I've realized that being with him is more fulfilling and makes me happier than being without him. And I'm saying all this based on the belief that he truly loves me...and I would have to play fill in the blanks with myself about that, lol. It would go something like this: "If he truly loved me, he would_____________".
See?

Oh, and I really want to make this point very clear. Most of my initial posts were addressing those that take on a third party purely for recreational, selfish, "just for physical pleasure" reasons, thinking "what they don't know won't hurt them", and rationalizing til the cows come home that somehow "it's no biggie".

Sugar, I don't know what to say to you. In ways, I have experienced and probably will continue to experience the same situation, only in my situation, it isn't so extreme and he is very willing to work on things. Since this is such a serious issue and is so devastating to you, I'd like to tell you what I really believe about your situation but I'll do so in the PM I promised you, lol. My computer is still psycho and I'm using someone elses, but I'm headed there now.

I don't see how anyone could condemn you for your actions. Touch is neccessary. You can get yourself off but you can't cuddle yourself.