^^^^

__________________
On the kinkometer, my kink measures as a sine wave.

If you Feel you need to cheat there is something wrong .... get with your OH and talk it out

P.S. Basically I'm agreeing with W W

This, in a nutshell, has always been my tug-of-war...my tendency to have strong feelings of affection for more than one at once. I am not naturally monogamous. I have trained myself to be that way, essentially for the same reason Osuche explained...to do otherwise would be dissrespectful.

I don't need to reread it thank-you. He was arguing exactly the same point as me - that some people say it is important and others say it isn't. His argument is that either way, it's ok to cheat, my argument is that either way it's not.

You're argument doesn't stand up. Here's a specific example:

Personally, in my marriage I think sex is very important, but we don't have a great deal of it at the moment - Fussy didn't find me particularly sexy during my pregnancy and now we have a young baby sapping our energy. However much I understand the need for sex, I would not tolerate Fussy cheating on me, since, as others pointed out, cheating is deception. If we were in an open relationship, then sex outside of it would not be cheating and to use the word in those terms is just being lazy with the English language.

It's a very male (sorry to generalise, but it's true) assumption that the actual act of sex is what causes the harm in a relationship. In fact it's usually the lies and the humiliation of it which hurts the most.

__________________
"Time flies like an arrow -
Fruit flies like a banana"

M Y - N A U G H T Y - P I C T U R E S ! !

I think loss of intimacy is a much more contributing factor to cheating than loss of sex drive.

But I've always felt that intimacy is more important than sex anyway, so it might just be my way of validying my point.

__________________
Though I am different from you,
We were born involved in one another.

For it was not into my ear you whispered, but into my heart. It was not my lips you kissed, but my soul.

Complete surrender should not just come at moments in which one faces overwhelming odds, but in the calm when it seems one is personally in complete control of one's life.

I would agree with this - a few years ago my first boyf cheated on me with my best friend - and the lies and humiliation I felt was much worse than the actual physicality itself (although that did hurt a lot). I think the fact they tried to cover it up, despite the fact I'd seen them having sex was the worst thing - and having to face them and all our other friends after was pretty horiffic.

I was both a cheater and a cheatee. Didn't feel good either way, in the long or short run...and I ain't planning on going thru THAT shit again!

I'd rather share a third person before I feel the need to cheat. If I'm with someone else, then I hope my partner feels the same. If we can't do that, then forget about it. I'll let it be known there are levels of fun within sex I can deal with, but we gotta do it together, or there's no point in being with someone.


This almost made me set to ask you for your hand in marriage, WW...but then I realized that it's prolly "counter productive" in the context of things!

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You are misreading what he and I are saying, then.

To the "Cheating Is Always Wrong" crowd sex is both simultaneously so important that one should never cheat because of the hurt feelings of the cheated on and so unimportant that people should happily live without it.

It cannot be both which is exactly what you are saying it is. Either that or you are not communicating your point very well.

In particular you need to reread the last paragraph of his I posted since he's quite clear that it NOT OK for that particular person to cheat, and they should break it off. So he is NOT saying it's always OK to cheat.

To be honest, I think you're misreading what I'm saying, but since I only had 61/2 hours sleep last night, and since I've pretty much averaged that for the last 113 days, I really can't be bothered to bat this argument back and forth Jude.

You underestimate my intelligence and ability with the English language if you think I don't realise he's saying it's not always OK to cheat.

However, every time we have sex with someone we run a risk of pregnancy or catching an STI. Even if condoms are being used (I mean would you have sex with someone with HIV, even if using a condom? I wouldn't dare) that risk is still there. Even if you've been sterilised pregnancies do still happen.

A worst case scenario:

Say my husband decides that he is justified in having extra-marital sex for whatever reason, because sex is important to him and he's not getting it at home - maybe because I have a serious illness or disability. The person he happens to sleep with is HIV positive (his partner hasn't told him, because she doesn't know, or she chooses not to disclose it, because, sex is important to her too, and she's can't get any when she tells people she has HIV.) The condom splits and my husband becomes infected, which is passed to me, during his daily caring routines. He has a cut finger from preparing my meal and in the process of helping me wash my privates, giving me my daily shot, changing my colostomy bag....whatever it may be...he passes the infection to me leaving me free to pass it onto our kids, other family members etc etc.

Or maybe he just risks giving my son a half sibling, so that he now has to share his father's time and financial resources with another child.

Sex has consequences, therefore it's important to know whether your partner is monogamous. It's naive and ignorant to think otherwise. Sex for the sake of physical pleasure alone is trivial and therefore not an acceptible reason to risk a meaningful relationship.

The point is, the unfaithful party is choosing to take the risk of sleeping with someone who may or may not have an STI, or creating another life in this world, the person who is being cheated on has no choice as to what they are being exposed. That is WRONG and you can't argue with that.

__________________
"Time flies like an arrow -
Fruit flies like a banana"

M Y - N A U G H T Y - P I C T U R E S ! !

I totally agree with this.

Why is it more wrong for a person to cheat than it is for one partner to completely deny the other physical companionship? If sex is sooooooo important then the person not giving it up needs to understand that their partner needs and give it up occasionally.

I get that you feel sex is important and I happen to agree with you. I agree that there are consquences and dangers. You are ignoring the other side of it though in this case. That being what I just said above, if it's important, then it's always important and you can't expect your partner to happily live without it just because for what ever reason one partner doesn't feel like having sex.

With all due respect, Jude, now you've changed your tune completely! The person you quoted made it clear than extra-marital sex was only permissable in cases where there was a justifiable reason for there not to be sex in the relationship (i.e.illness etc) and that in the case of the person who wanted sex elsewhere just because they weren't getting it at home, they should sort it out or split up, NOT have sex outside of the relationship.

And just for the record, there isn't much sex in our house right now, and that's HIS choice, not mine, so I'm speaking as one of those 'sexually deprived' people, who, in your view would be justified in having sex outside of my marriage.

__________________
"Time flies like an arrow -
Fruit flies like a banana"

M Y - N A U G H T Y - P I C T U R E S ! !

Pick me!!!


Pick me!!!

__________________
Though I am different from you,
We were born involved in one another.

For it was not into my ear you whispered, but into my heart. It was not my lips you kissed, but my soul.

Complete surrender should not just come at moments in which one faces overwhelming odds, but in the calm when it seems one is personally in complete control of one's life.

Hahaha - thanks for the vote of confidence WI. Love ya x

__________________
"Time flies like an arrow -
Fruit flies like a banana"

M Y - N A U G H T Y - P I C T U R E S ! !