I'm hearing ya Lou.

Just because someone doesn't feel like having sex, doesn't mean their partner has the green light to stray. Real reasons for not being able to make love must precipitate discussions and reasonable accomodations.

But sex is a barometer for other things. When one partner is withholding sex from the other, it's because there's a reason. Fix that, and the sex will return.

If the partner is not willing to attempt a fix...then the relationship should be questioned.

__________________
Though I am different from you,
We were born involved in one another.

For it was not into my ear you whispered, but into my heart. It was not my lips you kissed, but my soul.

Complete surrender should not just come at moments in which one faces overwhelming odds, but in the calm when it seems one is personally in complete control of one's life.

Where have I changed my tune? My stance the entire time has been the same. That being that people who say cheating is ALWAYS wrong cannot have it both ways when it comes to the importance of sex. It is either an important aspect of the relationship or it isn't. If it's important then it's important enough to provide on occasion even when you may not feel 100% into it because your partner needs/wants it. If it's not important then you shouldn't feel bad when your partner looks for it else where.

When my wife was pregnant we were unable to have sex. After losing two children her OB told her she wasn't even allowed to have orgasms because of fear of losing another baby. She could have taken care of my needs through oral sex but that seemed to me to be unfair to her since that tends to arouse her and I figured it would be cruel to get her turned on with no way to release. And since she spent the last seven weeks of her pregnancy lying in a hospital bed that led to some logistical problems as well. So I went pretty much the entire seven months of her pregnancy without physical affection from my wife. And from anyone else for that matter.

If she could have taken care of my needs I know she would have, and I know she felt bad for not being able to. As I felt bad for her because she did get horny in that seven months and there were times when she wanted the affection as much or more than I did.

To be honest I thought about cheating and I had offers. But in the end I couldn't and wouldn't hurt my wife in that way.

I wouldn't judge another person in the same situation if they cheated though. That's between them and their partner.

As far as your situation goes where he's perfectly capable of performing but isn't I wouldn't judge or blame either. Again it's not my place.

Ah but it's NOT between them and their partner if their partner doesn't know it's happening!

I've said it before in this thread but I'll say it again - having sex with someone other than your partner with their permission is not cheating - the act of cheating, by its definition involves deception, not a decision made as a couple for one or both parties to have sex outside of their marriage.

__________________
"Time flies like an arrow -
Fruit flies like a banana"

M Y - N A U G H T Y - P I C T U R E S ! !

Cheating is a "me" thing, not an "us" thing and you can't do "us" and "me" at the same time.

I am such a tart that cheating is a natural part of me, but the pain it causes the person/people who trust/s you isn't worth the gratification.

When the trust is more important to you than the genital buzz,there's no conflict.

When the genital buzz is more important, forget the idea of a relationship.

Easy!

__________________
Calm, quiet, smooth, devastating

OF, I think you've summed it up very nicely.

To me this is a different case--it's an externally imposed and temporary restriction. I don't think such a situation justifies cheating.

I just read this article before checking out the boards today....

http://men.msn.com/articlebl.aspx?c...096355&GT1=9212

Ok... Now I've read all of the posts and I'm in the camp that says cheating is only when deception and lies are part of it. I think there can be cheating without sex. This would be more devestating to me than extrimarital sex. I could handle it if my OH had sex with someone else for a purely physical reason - assuming that there was some reason that I couldn't do it for him - but I couldn't handle it if he were emotionally and spirtually involved with someone else. That would be a long term thing and I would be really hurt if he felt the need to get that connection outside of our marriage. I understand that the physical can be long term too, but it would not as big of an issue for me. I guess I'm more open to sharing physically than emotionally.

Well,good question.
We all know what the bible(God) says about premarital sex and adultry lets assume that He's right okay and lets look at a country that followed his will in that area; we have no more sexual issues in this country, 100%percent of all the sexually transmitted diseases in this country are gone. rape, child molestation, murder, homosexual issues, gender issues a huge % of our divorce rate and many of our emotional problems and issues are traced back to sex, all of this is gone.
I was talking to a nurse friend of mine she told me that their is a disease that they are transferring not by vaginal sex, but by oral sex and kissing (if you have the virus). They are having oral sex because it's not sex. (I wonder what president in the 90's made that thought a reality???) The disease gets in the lungs and over the next 5 to 10 years will kill our kids.
What if I am nuts and that all this is Bullshi_, what if it is nowhere near that bad? Could it be in ten years? Well take a look at the progression of these sexual issues over the last 50 years and see how these cases have increased and gottenworse year after year after year.
Question: Time or place for cheating ? I say hell no, cause you could kill yourself or somebody if you do.
What happens if im wrong, and their is no God or God does not care what we do. Even if that is true, isn't abstinence and monogamy the very best choices
for us and everybody? Why cheat, work on the relationship and if yu still have sexual issues after some serious work than maybe divorce is the right thing to do.
I not trying to am not judging anyone cause my past is just as attractive as yours and some worse. But it just seems like common sense to me, and having some self control.

What seems like common sense to one is foreign to others. We're all wired differently.

Some would view cheating as a way to save a marriage.

__________________
Though I am different from you,
We were born involved in one another.

For it was not into my ear you whispered, but into my heart. It was not my lips you kissed, but my soul.

Complete surrender should not just come at moments in which one faces overwhelming odds, but in the calm when it seems one is personally in complete control of one's life.

Except that it should be obvious that biblical standards for sex aren't acceptable to people.

Simple, telling fact: Virginity pledgers have just as high a rate of STD's and unwanted pregnancies as those who don't take such a pledge.



What disease is this???? I sure never have heard of anything like this, but I have heard of a million fabrications by the anti-sex crowd.



<Looks, doesn't see.>

There's *ONE* disease that's gotten worse--HIV. That's because it only made the jump from monkeys recently. (Perhaps it made it before but the area consisted of small tribes and didn't have enough population to maintain an infection and so it would have died out.)



The biblical repression of sex is far more likely to hurt someone. Note all the pedophile priests.



Cheating is never a *GOOD* thing. That doesn't always mean it's worse than ending a relationship, though.

i have been married 33 years the last 12 my wife had been living with a illness that has take away our sex life the last time i had interrcourse was with and internet friend (female) of course about 2 years ago and the wife knew of it so i don't feel that it was cheating.

Good for you and your wife for making good choices. I agree that being honest with your wife and her giving her consent for you to have sex with someone else cannot be considered 'cheating'.

It proves that there is a real, workable alternative to deception when there are extenuating circumstances preventing one partner from having sex.

__________________
"Time flies like an arrow -
Fruit flies like a banana"

M Y - N A U G H T Y - P I C T U R E S ! !

When I posted originally I said "cheating" in inverted commas because what I was referring to was sex outside the relationship, and did not involve the deception and lies of cheating.

I don't think lying to or deceiving your partner in order to have sex is acceptable under any circumstances. Like Sweet'n'Sassy said, it doesn't even have to involve sex to be regarded cheating.

Except that what "we all know what the Bible says" is not really what the book says...what people think they know is actually what a bunch of priests & rabbis have told them what it says, & very few can be bothered to go back & check the reference. For example, how is it that monogamy is all that God condones, yet most of the heroic figures of the Old Testament (all men of God, it says here) had many wives & concubines? I could go on for quite a while picking this post apart, but I see that Loren has done a pretty good number on it already, & I'm not one to flog a dead horse...but I did want to make at least this one point...

__________________
Plug me into somethin'

If the theory does not conform to the facts, then the facts must be discarded.

No good deed ever goes unpunished

Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, & beat you with experience.