What he ^^^ just said.





......... especially the part about "using scare tactics about "death panels" & "socialized medicine" to frighten already insecure people with lies, nonsense, & the occasional truckload of bullshit"

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Misuse of language, accidental or otherwise, is one of the difficulties when trying to address complex issues. The suggestion by the immediate past governor of Alaska of future ‘death panels’ in any of the health-care bills now in Congress is an example of this. The use of the word ‘gouging’ when referring to health-care policy insurance premiums is another. To accept that the term was used appropriately is to presume that the premiums are in some way extorted or swindled from the insured, or that the insurance companies deceptively overcharge.

As these companies have been regulated by Federal & State oversight bodies for over a century, one must conclude that either the claim that they are gouging is false, or that there is, as was once claimed a “Vast right-wing conspiracy" (used then in defense of a President during a sex scandal), but this time to hide or disguise inordinately large profits from these health insurance premiums. While government bodies can be distressing ineffective, I find it difficult to accept a hundred-year conspiracy theory without evidence, hence the parenthetical aside.

As for the comment “If ‘regulators’ of any industries were doing their jobs, we wouldn't be in the financial crisis we're in now”, I find it passing strange that this would come from an advocate of a new multi-billion dollar a year Federal Entitlement program. If ‘the regulators’ are part of the problem (as claimed above), then why should we expect that adding an enormous additional program would cause anything but more of these problems? This new program would be a Federal health program with millions of participants. Medicaid, another Federal health program with millions of participants has been described in this thread as “it took an infuriatingly long time to get accepted,” and “Medicaid plan B has its drawbacks, some due to extensive red tape.” This is hardly what I consider to be a ringing endorsement of the precursor of a potential future. I would have thought that we would want fewer, not more problems as the fruits of our efforts.

For those who, for some reason still cling to the notion that the health insurance policies available in the U.S. represent some sort of “’free market’ plan of health-care”, let me again remind them that this industry has been regulated for more than a century. A regulated market is not a free market. It is foolish to think it is.

Finally, for those who think that any change to the status quo will be a change for the worse, let me remind them that there are many Americans who would like to secure health-care coverage, but cannot. The recent election has put these hopes in play. The President wants to help them get that coverage. He also wants to not break the bank while doing so. This is a real challenge.

There are many different ways that health-care can be provided. Loulabelle gave a pleasantly candid assessment of one. Oldfart referenced an alternative from Australia. Senator Baucus presented a plan last week which seems to be closest so far to accomplishing the goals described by the President.

The current debate about health-care reform is in part a debate about death, which is why it evokes such fear. Reformers say that objections are largely based on misunderstanding, fuelled by scaremongering. They have a point. I think they miss the point that a bigger problem is that most Americans have pretty good health insurance and no idea how much it costs. Taxpayers foot the bill for the old. Most workers with employer-provided health insurance think that their employer is paying for it, when in fact it is part of their wages.

The system is riddled with waste. That is pretty well documented. Yet most Americans feel little urge to make it more efficient. If you already have coverage, there is little incentive to the individual to seek efficiencies.

Of course many people feel insecure about the impending health-care changes! Few Americans have a clear idea how this great change will affect them. This should hardly come as a surprise, as even quite basic details are undecided. The uninsured have the most to gain, but they are only 15% of the population. Everyone else has something to lose. Many Americans do not trust the government to do anything much, let alone make decisions about life and death.

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Eudaimonia

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Putting words in someone else's mouth is a time-honored technique of yours, & one that I am way past sick of. No where have I said that I am an advocate of the plan currently in play; in fact, the more I hear of it, the more I fear it will be less than a Band-Aid for the central problems before us. I do believe the current system is broken, & it would be nice if the self-professed most prosperous nation on earth could at least catch up a little with some of our equally developed neighbors & allies in taking care of our own.

If you had read a little further, you would have picked up on the fact that I said Medicaid was no more frustrating to deal with than private insurance I've had in the past; hardly a "ringing endorsement" of the exiting private system, I'd say. If I seem angry or bitter about private insurers, it's only because I really am (for reasons in the past my blood pressure would rather I not go into at the moment).

I have to say, at least I'm somewhat pleased that someone else sees the irony of my "truckload" comment enough to use it to bracket the latest incoming truckload...

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Plug me into somethin'

If the theory does not conform to the facts, then the facts must be discarded.

No good deed ever goes unpunished

Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, & beat you with experience.

As Far As I am Concerned, ANYONE who Forces Anyone To Do Something With Threat of Reprisals If They Don't Is WRONG!

And That Is The Crux Of The Whole Debate As Far As I Am Concerned. I Do Not Want The Government Or Anybody Else Telling Me Or My Children That We Are Going To Have To Do This Or They Are Going To Penalize Us.

You Can Debate All The Rest Of The BS You Want But It Comes Down To You Having No Choice At All!

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The Mind Is Your Limit. As Long As Your Mind Can
Envision It, You Can Do It!

I give him a half point for not leaving the caps lock on for the whole damn message.

The govt forces us to do all kinds of things, under penalty, all the time. It's what they do. And sometimes it's actually for the common good. Get over it.

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Plug me into somethin'

If the theory does not conform to the facts, then the facts must be discarded.

No good deed ever goes unpunished

Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, & beat you with experience.

That is right they force us and force us and yet we don't do a thing about it, Go ahead and knuckle under.

If You want it go ahead, but at least give the rest of us the choice if we do or do not want it and if you do want it let it come out of your pocket not mine.

By they way what happened to free choice, I guess that will go down with the rest of the bill of rights.

You can't even run an ad contrary to this bill without them threating you, just ask Humana.

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The Mind Is Your Limit. As Long As Your Mind Can
Envision It, You Can Do It!

This speaks to the point I made in re the general ignorance about, and the associated insecurity with, the proposed reforms. It is a mistake to refer to the singular ‘it’. There is not one bill working through Congress, but several, as mentioned in the linked article about Senator Baucus’ bill. His is distinguished by at least approaching the President's "budget neutral" goal.


Ignoring the lurid prose, the fact remains that you have endorsed the proposition that the government fix the problem, seemingly without knowing what those changes entail.

It is often useful to become familiar with the subject material when advocating change.

sad_sam,

It is true that some people prefer to be told what to do.

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Eudaimonia

Zoid has a point that we are and always have been 'told' what we can and can't do with threat of reprisal. We are glad that an authority says people can not barge into somebody else's home to rape and murder them. That's pretty acceptable. When we are told we HAVE to have a license to drive a car we cringe a little that we are being dictated to .............. until we see some of the drivers out there, then we just curse the cops for not being there. Now most states tell us we HAVE to have auto insurance and we squint another eye but know it really makes sense.

Part of the problem for us old bastards is we believed that of the "Bill of Rights" and American individualism and freedom that we were brought up on. Looking back, we nor any other country ever had freedom from tax or authority to do as they feel is appropriate at the time. We just hope for a form of benevolent dictatorship and hope it doesn't hurt US.

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Isn't it sad that the "bricks" of that dictatorship rise from within our societies.

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Calm, quiet, smooth, devastating

The circle of need and want

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I hate it when the evil government forces me to drive the speed limit. I hate it when I see something in a store and just want to steal it the evil government punishes me for it. I also hate it when I feel like beating my child to a bloody pulp and the nosy SRS steps in and won't let me.

How about you stop making asinine statements? Like I said libertarianism died with the financial markets last year. We proved that the system will not regulate itself.

Not everyone would agree with that analysis.

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Eudaimonia

How about people being able to express their opinions without the mean-spirited comments? People are entitled to different views and different opinions.

I have been a member of Pixies since 2001,& altho many people disagree with
each other,they have always refrained from calling each other names,even if
spelled wrong!One thing that I take great offense at,is that my wife & I are
stupid enough to be swayed by the right or left wing views!I am having a cataract operation tomorrow,so I won't see any replies to this but I would suggest that most people do what my wife does-make sure what your insurance is going to pay & get the name of the person,with the co.,that tells you this!
Yesterday-A bill was put in to let the gigantic Govt policy be read.It was defeated by the Democratic writers of the bill!So much for transparancy!That is one of the MAIN reasons,that my wife & I are registered independants!As I
have said many times - Different strokes for different folks! Irish

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Irish---Better to be dead & cool,then alive & uncool!
(Harley Davidson & the Marlboro Man)