Wanda...

I disagree with your definitions as they seem to be based purely on sexual behavior. I don't think "sexual orientation" can be soley defined by when, where, with whom and how you have sex.

I define my sexual orientation as Lesbian. I have had sex with men (2 to be exact) and REALLY enjoy penetration (toys, fingers, tongues, etc.). I am not opposed to sexual experiences with men, and often have fantasies that include them. In my case, the term LESBIAN refers to who I "partner" with. Who I invest my emotions in. Where I feel comfortable establishing a romantic and domestic relationship. Does that make sense?

I clarify this, because according to your definitions, 98% of the straight people I know (men & women) would be bi-sexual, bi-curious, or experimenting. I don't believe that any of them would define themselves as such. Particularly the men!

The bottom line, in my opinion, is that sexuality is sexuality. Pleasure is pleasure. If a man enjoys anal pleasure, he is not necessarily gay. If a woman fantasises about another woman, she is not necessarily bi-curious. If a lesbian likes to get fucked with a strap-on, she's still a lesbian...and just because 2 female porn stars perform cunilingus, doesn't make them lesbians.

It's really dificult to label anyone on the basis of what they find sexually arousing. Sexuality is a beautiful thing. Pleasure is something everyone is entitled to. I encourage everyone to explore whatever it is that turns them on, without feeling trapped by labels and stereotypes. Sex is sex, love is love...it's really special when the two intersect. In my opinion, that intersection is where you find the defintion for your orientation.

Humbly,
Ophelia

You have cleared up a lot for me by really mudding the water. *L*

You have allowed me to rethink some of the tendencies traps that we all walk through regularly. I can not disagree with anything stated and you stated it well.

Yet we are left with honest need of defined words simply to be able to communicate. Semantics are always dangerous in as much that they are often abused by both edges of the dagger.

I guess I will center my conceptions with Wanda’s GUIDELINES and just loosen the margins of absolute with Ophelia, so I can tell all our Pixie ladies how much I lust for them.

(now go ahead and pick that apart. I know what I meant even if you don’t know what I said.) LOL :yellghst:

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Sorry to make matters more complex...just used to having to defend my relationships outside of their sexual content...not just in the "straight" community, but also in the "gay" community.

I suppose what I've so in-eloquently stated is that my sexual orientation can not be defined by how I get laid, but rather by who I choose to share the intimacy of personal relationships with.

I agree that we need guidlines to express our desires, interests and sources of pleasure, but I'd hate to think that I'd been bumped from a group I (more or less) identify with because of the How's and Why's of my sexual behaviour.

Ok...I'm off my soap box....

huh huh...did I say box?

In my honest opinion, I think "bi-sexuality" is just a normal expression of sexuality. It's the desire to share pleasure with whomever presents themselves , whether in fantasy form...or real life partners.

Sinking in the mud further....

Ophelia

Panty...

Did I mention that I love your input and eloquence?

Now I have!

Cum find me, big boy!

Ophelia

….but unfortunately my eloquence often leaves something to be desired. I guess my attention is weighted to one side of the two.

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Mix well and heat up for 45 minutes.
As stated before I think Wanda does a very good job of putting preferences into categories, but Ophelia has me kicking myself for not thinking of the exact point she made when she commented that while certain sexual acts are a good indictator, that's not what makes you gay or straight. That's one thing that bothers me is when "community leaders" get up in arms about gay rights and focus solely on the sexual part of the relationship. There's a lot more to it than that! I think if you take Wanda's categories along with Ophelia's point of view, you'll get a rather cloudy picture... which is great!
That is what makes us individuals! Certainly it helps to have a category... Like PantyFanatic said, it helps us communicate more easily. Well, I will now relinquish my soapbox...
And get back to focusing on the sexual part of a relationship!

now if I just had a clue as to WTF you meant by all that...

LOL

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Plug me into somethin'

If the theory does not conform to the facts, then the facts must be discarded.

No good deed ever goes unpunished

Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, & beat you with experience.

Thinking back over my life, it is true that MOST ALL WOMAN ARE BISEXUAL.


When I BUY them stuff….
they get SEXUAL.

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At least one thing is clear now!

At the risk of regreting this:

I was just expressing an opinion, not trying to set some kind of standard! This works for me, and has not caused any social problems for me.

These are Social definitions that I use daily, I am not a sex therapist or psychologist! Just a nurse with too damn much paperwork, and not enough real patient care...but that is another soap box for me!! *smile*

I am basing this on SEXUAL BEHAVIOR and DESIRE. (I believe that a woman who constantly daydreams about having sex with other women is engaging in a behavior even if she never acts on it)

I am partnered with another Woman in a long term relationship. Yes, it is an open relationship, but that is not the point. I have sex with men also. I LOVE sex with men. I also LOVE sex with other Women, and I love my partner, and can't dream of being without her love, companionship, and our lovely life together.

She is a self-described Lesbian, who was married for years, before we met. She has told me she loved her hubby, and had a good sex life with him. And no, I do not know if her orientation has anything to do with her divorce.

She no longer wishes to have sex with men.

(I do not know if she fantasizes about sex with men, though she does ask detailed questions about my adventures...)

I stated that there were extremes in each group. I know "political" Lesbians who will not alllow any kind of penatration, as a "protest" against male society, as well as Women who claim to become ill at the thought of sex with a man.

I am Catholic, and have known priests and nuns ( God help all of us who survived a Catholic High School education) who had domestic, loving, emotional, intimate NON-SEXUAL relationships with others of the same sex, AND the opposite sex, and I do not apply the label of Lesbian, gay, or heterosexual to these relationships.

And Ophelia, I do know the pain of being dropped from a social group because of my sexual orientation. I have argued this with other women before, and been called nasty things. Worse things by some men, though... I am accused by the "political" Lesbians of being a traitor, like Atheists treat Agnoistics, I guess, by not being willing to drop men.

Having a date leave you in a cafe because she found out you were "bi", and harming "women everywhere" by being, in her opinion, too promiscuous, and not a "true" Lesbian is hurtful and humiliating!!

If my employer ever found out about my lifestyle...

People who perform sex acts not out of desire, such as the movie poeple you mentioned are not part of this. This was about sexual wants and DESIRES.

Last, Ophelia, I think it IS possible that 98% of the "straight women" (I am NOT going to discuss men here, they are too weird) you know are either bi, bi-curious, or experimenting!

Going back to my hiding place now!!


WW

I believe the same....i'll add though that not all may act on the feeling they have for the same sex...and that there are women out there that have absolutely no interest in being intimate with another woman

I have a few bi-curious and bisexual male friends....and they say that they believe men to be the same....but hide it due to being persecuted by the percentage of males that are dead against it..


I find it sad that in this day and age that anybody should have to hide or defend their sexual preference..

Sharniqua

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ugh!!!
I am sorry,that was much too harsh.
I meant this to be fun and playful.
This morning, when I re-read what I wrote last night, I was reminded of what two brandies and a nasty phone call does to me, instead of two brandies and a slow dance...
They both get me in trouble, but one kind is more fun than the other
Ophelia, I am very sorry.
Sorry to everyone.

Back to my hidey hole, for a while, anyway..

WW

P.S. I think my new avatar is a better likeness.
W.

Wanda,
Maybe I missed something in your post but I did not find it harsh at all. Sounded to me that you were just stating your opinion and very well I might add. This is what makes this place so interesting. Now come on out of that hidey hole!
PS My wife and I are planning a trip to N.O. this summer. Any suggestions on places to stay, sites to see, activities? You can e-mail me. Thanks.

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Luv2please

This post is mainly to Ophelia and Wanda. First of all, I'd like to say to Wanda I think ALL of her posts were not only inforamtive but inciteful as well. No need to go to your "hidey hole" and no need to apologize for your opinions.
To Ophelia, I'd like to say you brought up valid and thought provoking points. And ventured into areas most shy away from.

I have had a few experiences with women. I have never been in a monogamous relationship in which I felt I was in love with a woman though. It was just something that I wanted to do so I acted on it. And if the mood hits me again, I'll do it again. I think the most important aspect is letting the other person know where things stand before anything happens to avoid confrontaion, disilusionment and hurt feelings later. I am not sure where I would fall on the "sexuality number line." But then as you ladies pointed out it is not important to label ourselves. I try to be true to myself by not denying my wants and desires for fear of not "fitting the preconceived notions" of our judgmental society. I make no apologies for my personal choices and I applaud the Ophelias and Wandas of our society. So I guess intead of trying to decide among bisexual, homosexual, or heterosexual, I'll just take the generic label of SEXUAL!

Looking down...what is this that I'm standing on? Is it a soap box? Someone hold it steady while I step down.....

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If you can't be good.....be good at it!

Steady there hotgirl.... (Putting my hands around hotgirl)May I help you down...