At the risk of not following the excellent advice that the first thing that you should do when you realise that you have dug yourself into a hole, is to stop digging. May I remind evreyone (and with the humility to admit that my first post was wrongly composed) that I live in a different country with a different culture and different laws.

We have been dismantling state intervention in people's lives to the point whereby most (that I can think of) of the things that you refer to Gekko are not applicable in my country. I suppose that we have realised that you are damaging the institution of marriage if you force people to do it. We have seen a rise in so called honor killings here and our culture is rejecting any counter culture claim that they are in any way acceptable. Marraige is a personal choice (I am sure there are the shotguns still), but you will not be discriminated against for wishing not to be married. This covention is being extended to all gay relationships, but I am not sure how far exactly the legislation has gone.

It will therefore surprise you Gekko that I am in total agreement with you and in my world you would not have been forced into a hateful etc etc etc that is a "meaningless piece of paper". When I am talking about marriage and expressing my opinion that in my country I can't find anyone who has had a successful open marriage (and I don't include 3somes 4somes goups or whatever when both are involved) I am not thinking about your type of relationship because you wouldn't have had to let the state into your happy lives, nor am I talking about people in relationships that they consciously keep away from a state or church interference, I am only talking about two free adults who have chosen to make the committments to each other that are contained within our state and our state church ceremonies.

I am glad you have a great relationship as I do, they are different to be sure, mine is very akin to the last post by Sixsense. I can't ask Mrs. Vig's opinion at the moment because I have oppressed her into spending the whole of the summer in the Mediterranean whilst I stay at home working and being smug about the fruits of my Patriarchal domination.

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Vigil, if you were my husband, I would give you poison.

Madam, if you were my wife, I would take it.