is there even such a thing anymore? Do people still think in those terms when it comes to marriage and children? In the US in 1980 roughly 18% of children were born "out of wedlock". In 2006 that number was almost 40%. Do people even believe in marriage anymore? It's costly to do and undo. I was curious if people are just not interested in getting married any longer. Does anyone know if marriages in that age range have dropped? Are the statistics in other countries similar? I wonder... of those children born "out of wedlock", how many were born into families with adults in committed relationships?

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The practice of putting women on pedestals began to die out when it was discovered that they could give orders better from there.~ Betty Grable

If I wanted your opinion, I'd remove the duct tape and ask you for it.~ Me
<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
One man's dream is another man's nightmare~~~~> §¤ Lilith ¤§
~>My Scribbles<~
==>Gone Shopping<== ~Just a Quickie~ *~A Celebration Vacation~* ~Surprises~ Sleeping With the Window Open
What Did You Do Today? Self Defense Class ~Short Sweet Snippets~ § Summer Spin § Story Challenge Submission Pajamas

I know that many of my friends here in Québec have absolutely no intention of getting married, ever. Back home, people are still getting married though.

I do definitely want to get married one day. I'd rather be married before having children, but if I'm not it's not the end of the world.

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Si à travers nos veines coule encore le sang...
Si dans les jeux d'enfants on entend encore l'accent...
Si nous sentons encore l'espoir de nos grands-parents...
Si dans les voiles du large souffle encore le vent...
Y'a jamais eu de Grand Dérangement.

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On the kinkometer, my kink measures as a sine wave.

Right but that does not have the answer to my questions.

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The practice of putting women on pedestals began to die out when it was discovered that they could give orders better from there.~ Betty Grable

If I wanted your opinion, I'd remove the duct tape and ask you for it.~ Me
<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
One man's dream is another man's nightmare~~~~> §¤ Lilith ¤§
~>My Scribbles<~
==>Gone Shopping<== ~Just a Quickie~ *~A Celebration Vacation~* ~Surprises~ Sleeping With the Window Open
What Did You Do Today? Self Defense Class ~Short Sweet Snippets~ § Summer Spin § Story Challenge Submission Pajamas

I only know the term "single parent" is heard a lot more often than "bastard" is now.

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I have to say, I felt strongly about being married before having children.

It's not particularly a moral thing, but I do think that if you don't feel you can commit yourself wholly to another person, you've got no business having a child - as that's exactly what having a child is.

In the UK, I hate to say it, but it seems to me that there's becoming a class divide between those with kids who are married and those who aren't. There seems to be a lot of people in the UK these days who treat having kids as an unfortunate but unavoidable result of casual sex. They seem to think nothing of having multiple kids with multiple partners and allowing the state to support them all. I think this is causing a backlash of people across all of the traditional social classes who feel strongly about being married before they have kids as a way of distancing themselves from this. That's to say, they don't see anything wrong with being unmarried parents in itself, but they want to separate themselves from the section of society who take such a flippant view of having children.

Having said that, I have lots of friends who aren't married and who have kids/are expecting/are trying to get pregnant and it doesn't matter a bean to me or make me think any differently about them. In fact, I've a couple of friends who got married with no intention ever to have kids, and that I find harder to get my head around. I don't really understand the point of getting married if you don't want kids.

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"Time flies like an arrow -
Fruit flies like a banana"

M Y - N A U G H T Y - P I C T U R E S ! !

The term tended to have ramifications in what your share of the inheritance was.

Laws have changed, so an offspring from the other side of the sheets has a claim on the family piggy bank.

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Calm, quiet, smooth, devastating

I have a lot of mixed feelings about this topic. The stats that Lil quotes are just stats, that don't include any of the human stories behind any of the numbers. I tend to agree with Lou, that if you're ready to commit to spending the 20 yrs (and beyond) to raising a child, it helps if you're willing to commit to having another adult around to assist in the process.
A few yrs back, I knew a co-worker who had a son (then 8 yrs old) that she had deliberately borne out of wedlock. Her story (as short as I can make it) was that she had been in a bad marriage before (with children), & she & her current BF wanted a child together but didn't want to spoil their "relationship" by getting married. It appeared that they had approached this as adults, & that the lack of a wedding ring had nothing to do with this man's commitment to being in his son's life. I felt it was not my place to judge whether they were wrong or right.
I have learned a lot about my own family history in recent years, not all were things I wanted to learn, & I don't feel like going into detail here again. The one conclusion I have reached is that times have indeed changed, that being conceived and/or born out of wedlock does not carry the stigma it once had...and that having two parents may or may not always be the ideal situation for a child, depending on circumstance.

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Plug me into somethin'

If the theory does not conform to the facts, then the facts must be discarded.

No good deed ever goes unpunished

Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, & beat you with experience.

I personally don't get it. Like Loula said if you can't commit to a person for for life with a marriage license what makes you think you want the even bigger responsibility/commitment of raising a child?

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23 years?

You're still in the honeymoon.

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Calm, quiet, smooth, devastating

That's why I added the last question. I wish there was information included in this data that showed us the real story. In my experience in the US, while the rates of children born out of marriages has increased, I do not see the amount of stable lifelong committments (like Sharni's) increasing. I personally could care less about marriage, what I am seriously worried about is the number of children being raised by single moms with multiple siblings with a variety of fathers. I question the stability of these families and the amount of responsibility these parents really have towards raising their children. I have a personal stake in this because I see it daily in situations where schools are now basically raising children with very little assistance from over-worked parents who show very little responsibility for the person they are creating.

__________________

The practice of putting women on pedestals began to die out when it was discovered that they could give orders better from there.~ Betty Grable

If I wanted your opinion, I'd remove the duct tape and ask you for it.~ Me
<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
One man's dream is another man's nightmare~~~~> §¤ Lilith ¤§
~>My Scribbles<~
==>Gone Shopping<== ~Just a Quickie~ *~A Celebration Vacation~* ~Surprises~ Sleeping With the Window Open
What Did You Do Today? Self Defense Class ~Short Sweet Snippets~ § Summer Spin § Story Challenge Submission Pajamas

I see both groups here at my grandkids' school.

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Calm, quiet, smooth, devastating

Exactly why it's impossible to cast a big blanket stock answer that would cover all the questions that have been brought up here. I had so much more I wanted to say in my previous post, that I simply didn't have the time to cover, & had no desire to test everybody else's patience by doing so.

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Plug me into somethin'

If the theory does not conform to the facts, then the facts must be discarded.

No good deed ever goes unpunished

Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, & beat you with experience.

the mothers who show very little responsibility for the person they create are the villains here. people don't blame the babies any longer. in fact, they get more opportunities now than ever before, oliver twists no more if they choose.

a marriage means nothing if the only thing keeping it together is a piece of paper and government's stamp of approval and acceptance. a commitment to have a child is nothing like the commitment you make with another adult. and the desire to have a child doesn't require the experience of marriage or partnership to manifest or flourish, no matter the sex of the single parent. it's the intention of the parent, and depth of that parent's concern and involvement which matter.

kids will, on average, do better in life if they come from a childhood with two stable adults in it. that doesn't mean married parents, or even a mom and dad. it could be grandparents or guardians or much older siblings. but kids who come from single parent households only stand half a chance if the parent gives a crap.

sadly, i agree lil. the undereducated, apathetic parent is on the rise. we keep bailing them out because we must; every child deserves a shot at an education. yet our tolerance of the apathetic parent is sounded loud and clear every time we write a bigger check because she had another baby

a conundrum. what could be a solution?

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Trees give peace to the souls of men * Nora Waln

The forest would be very quiet if no other birds sang than those who sing the best * Henry van Dyke

some fairly sordid tales, rambles, and anecdotes
Hypothetically Speaking * Something More * Cammy Interrupted * An Experimental Vacation * Masked * so..damn..hot * Thank You * My toy, his idea * no.19 Maple Lane * I Have A Surprise For You * Yesterday * In a Quiet Kitchen * help me decide * untitled prose * more untitled prose