What that teacher did is unacceptable to me. It lacks common sense and responsability. Something that controversial and that cutting edge for a group of 7 year olds should have had parental buy in first. Who knows, perhaps all of the parents would have said "go for it". The story might be a good one to teach the kids about the bigger world. But to just spring it on...that's not cool.

Consider it from this perspective, what if a teacher told a story about a bunch of niggers talking to a bunch of cunts about how Bill was holding them back... Not exactly something any of us would want to try and explain to 7 year olds.

Er, what? You're using the n & c words as an analogy to a story about gay people? I really don't get your point.

I think he's saying that words have power, and that words associated with social issues have special power.

You wouldn't drag very young children into a situation advocating racial or feminist issues, so why would you consider it for gay issues.

I think that's his point.

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I trust you implicitly, OF, but I still don't get his point:

i) Explaining there are different, healthy lifestyles in this vast world of ours
ii) Perpetuating stereotypes with ugly language for what purpose?

My initial post to the thread tread lightly when I wondered if children of a young age should be taught such grown-up things.

If an authority figure used the 'n' & 'c' words in a teaching situation, I'd show them the power of the fist.

I just don't see the connection & really don't appreciate how Jax just tossed those words so lightly into the discussion. I can SORTA see his point but his reply was kinda offensive to me (& I don't get offended easily. Hell, PF has been one of my best friends for four years.) My children will be raised as feminists (regardless of their genders) & will be taught tolerance for all cultures.

If you could explain slowly to this blonde the "power of words" in this discussion, I'd love to accept your prose.

I have used the N word in class in a similar context. My students 90% of which are African American are VERY homophobic. They hurl homosexual insults often and then say it's OK because they say they did not call someone gay only that they acted like it. Either way they are using the terms to describe negative attributes to a group of people. So I used the N word to illustrate how if the same types of insults were used in the same way but N was substituted they would be pissed and upset. Then I asked them how they think a gay student or student with gay parents would feel overhearing their insults. I tell them constantly that we don't use terms of disgrace to describe actions attributed to an entire group of people. I have *almost* eradicated both the N word and the homosexual insults from their school language but I know they probably still use them at home.

I know this is not the same situation as reading a book to 1st graders but it is what happens on an older level. At least in my experience.

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Using the N word perpetuates the N word.

Teaching people that there are gay people in the world is different. The teacher wasn't saying "There are fags who fuck in the ass". That would be shock value.

If a teacher used the N or C word to elementary students, no matter the illustration, I'd be on the school board's steps.

OK, now we're mixing it up . . . you're talking older students, I'm talking younger students. We're talking gay, we're talking colour.

I guess the underlying feeling for me remains -- I found that post from Jax was unnecessarily crude (& I know, I know, I can be the most crude person out there sometimes).

There's another Pixie who jokes about "crack whores" who honest to God literally takes my breath away with his crudeness at times.

Steph,

These are all confronting and contraversial concepts for crusty old folk.

7 year old children have no ability to filter concepts through experience, instead placing their trust in their educators, as they have been told.

The authority that commands them to believe their teachers when they tell them that the Earth is round and that George Washington was the first US President carries through to this case, where the kids are being told that this is not only an acceptable relationship, but one to be sought. In effect, they are touting the gay lifestyle.

When grown adults decide to have a relationship without fear or favour, that is one thing,usually good, regardless of the gender pairings.

This is something more.

Words are more powerful than bullets and bombs.

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Calm, quiet, smooth, devastating

That was my problem when I read the thread. I don't want my kids to learn about life from a teacher, however, I'm sure the teacher didn't call them "fags" or "homos" whilst reading the story.

I know my child will hear those words on the street & I see Lil's point about addressing the fact that older kids are calling each other hurtful names.

My main problem is that Jax just tossed those words out there as if it was equal. I don't think the teacher was perfectly correct in her methods, however, equating it to her tossing the N & C words to very young children was offensive.




I agree & I'm stating that Jax was crude. At the same time, I'm attempting to show his post wasn't a good analogy.

It would have been better if the tale had shown a mix of lifestyles, showing that there are alternatives.

We'll continue tomorrow. 0330 start so I'll squib and crash.

I'll be interested to see how the thread develops while I sleep and work.

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Calm, quiet, smooth, devastating

Normal life will show children there are "other" lifestyles". Not every child is going to know that sometimes there are two daddies or two mommies raising a well-adjusted child.

The teacher wasn't calling gay people fags. Why did Jax compare this to niggers and cunts & Bill (Clinton?)?

My analogy was crude, and those are ugly, ugly words (words I do not use incidentally).

What I was trying to say was that while the teacher did not break any laws, would we be giving them 'credit' for enlightening the children if they enlightened them with ugly words or ugly stereotypes? Probably not. But those words are legal and the topic would 'make kids think' and be seen as fair game. So why is the one okay and the one not? Just because of the passion of the teacher?

The teacher needed to think through this a bit more before just doing. That's all I'm trying to say.

Jax.